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Old September 9th, 2012, 03:58 AM   #4301
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TUTOR is an awesome and sensible system to enforce speed without becoming just a hassle or a danger (people suddenly breaking way below the limit near the speed trap and then accelerating way above it after).
Yes, but will it raise enough money to (a) pay for itself and then (b) update those 30-years-out-of-date signs?!
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Old September 9th, 2012, 11:36 AM   #4302
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I see quite a lot of police on Italy's roads, and they all wear very cool sunglasses, but they have very little interest in educating people on their behaviour on the roads it seems. A while ago on the A10 going through the tunnels and over bridges at Genua, I got overtaken by a Fiat Punto police car, with the blue lights and sirenes on. It got flashed out of the way by a faster, tailgathing BMW.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #4303
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...a just happened crash, with the car in the middle of the lane!
Very dangerous situation. Elsewhere all sorts of lights would be blinking in front of the tunnel to alert other drivers however in Italy tunnel safety in older tunnels is still not a priority.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #4304
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A while ago on the A10 going through the tunnels and over bridges at Genua, I got overtaken by a Fiat Punto police car, with the blue lights and sirenes on. It got flashed out of the way by a faster, tailgathing BMW.
Was that before or after the abduction by space aliens?
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Old September 9th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #4305
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Originally Posted by Road_UK
I see quite a lot of police on Italy's roads, and they all wear very cool sunglasses, but they have very little interest in educating people on their behaviour on the roads it seems.
Money, money it's their only interest.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 12:24 PM   #4306
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Very dangerous situation. Elsewhere all sorts of lights would be blinking in front of the tunnel to alert other drivers however in Italy tunnel safety in older tunnels is still not a priority.
The only alert was the driver, an old man standing few meters away from his car (without reflective jacket) to signal with hands to move on the other lane. I drive on this highway since many years, and I saw several accidents happaned always in the same point. And almost always was the driver to signal it...
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Old September 9th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #4307
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Very dangerous situation. Elsewhere all sorts of lights would be blinking in front of the tunnel to alert other drivers however in Italy tunnel safety in older tunnels is still not a priority.
in Austria, this would be a tunnel light show
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Old September 9th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #4308
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in Austria, this would be a tunnel light show
Yes, all Austrian tunnels have a traffic light that is usually green but may turn red if there are problems. But what happens if only a lane is blocked but the tunnel is passable like in the pic above?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #4309
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They would probably close the tunnel with red light (because of video surveillance of tunnels - which is obviously missing here) until road service arrives at the scene.

I am aware that Italy has incredible number of tunnels and it is time and money consuming to update all tunnels to more modern safety standards. But in previous years they could at least update some longer tunnels (like this one, which is about 2 km long).
I like new tunnels which have hard shoulder through whole length (sole country in Europe), but old ones are completely neglected.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #4310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber
They would probably close the tunnel with red light (because of video surveillance of tunnels - which is obviously missing here) until road service arrives at the scene.

I am aware that Italy has incredible number of tunnels and it is time and money consuming to update all tunnels to more modern safety standards. But in previous years they could at least update some longer tunnels (like this one, which is about 2 km long).
I like new tunnels which have hard shoulder through whole length (sole country in Europe), but old ones are completely neglected.
Many A27 long tunnels lack of hard shoulders and it opened in 1995.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #4311
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I think that practice of building tunnels with hard shoulders started between 2003 and 2005 and I don't know if this is mandatory or can be omitted in some cases.

All new tunnels on A1 (Bologna-Firenze) have them, almost all new tunnels on reconstructed A3 have them (but most of three-laned tunnels after Salerno which are a bit older don't have hard shoulder) and new superstradas have them too (like Trieste bypass or new SS roads on Sicily).
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Old September 9th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #4312
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I see quite a lot of police on Italy's roads, and they all wear very cool sunglasses, but they have very little interest in educating people on their behaviour on the roads it seems. A while ago on the A10 going through the tunnels and over bridges at Genua, I got overtaken by a Fiat Punto police car, with the blue lights and sirenes on. It got flashed out of the way by a faster, tailgathing BMW.
But I was driving on the German Autobahn I saw the cops who eat wurstel and potatoes! Still lives stereotypes in 2012! Look in Italy those who behave badly on the highway without complying with speed limits' are just Germans, Swiss and Austrians! I often attend the A10 and I can assure you! I do not defend the Italian nn but you're better!
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Old September 9th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #4313
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If you want to argue with me, at least try and do it without using Google Translate. Either way, some Italians are raving mad on the roads. I see it myself nearly every week.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #4314
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Just returned from my Brescia-Salerno-Brescia trip. My nerves are shaken. When I become king of the world, I'll ban everyone south or Rome from the streets.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #4315
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I find that strong nerves are needed on the A1 south of Florence. Driving in Naples always has been a challenge to me.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #4316
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I find that strong nerves are needed on the A1 south of Florence. Driving in Naples always has been a challenge to me.
Quite surprisingly, driving in Naples tangenziale was pleasant. No speeding, no tailgating, no reckless driving. Problems arose inside Salerno (whose tangenziale becomes a sort of racing road at night) and on the roads reaching Terracina and Circeo park from the A1. Overtake ban is systematically ignored, they do 130+ in 60 km/h-limited stretches. One of the most annoying thing they do is using the leftmost canalization lane at traffic lights, the one reserved only for those turning left, to go straight and overtake, sort of "cutting the queue".
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:45 PM   #4317
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The city with most challenging traffic in Italy (among large ones, that is) for me was Catania, but that when I had less than 2 years on my driver's license and drove there with friends all the way, arriving at afternoon peak under rain in August.

Palermo is also on the crazy-ish side, but it is more congested, so the problems are more related to kamikaze scooters than cars. Problem is that in the old city some drivers are uninhibited about double-parking on narrow streets while they load/unload something, and had the experience myself of being stuck behind vans for more than couple minutes while they pretend you just are not there!!!

Genova traffic never played much tricks on my the handful of times I drove to its center. The Sopraelevata needs some TUTOR though. It is a nice urban expressway, pride of Italian engineering, but surely not appropriate for 100km/h driving.

Bologna, where g.spinoza is from IIRC, has a problem that repeats in some other Italian cities: an urban ring road (around its medieval core) with many multi-directional traffic lights with many vehicles trying to go on different directions, scooters taking shortcuts and lack of proper lane signaling. A drive there peak time is surely frightening to the average Dutch or Swedish driver used to well-signed roundabouts.

In term of highway driving, A10/is one of the most challenging with speeders, people disrespecting 80km/h speed limit zones etc. But last time I drove there TUTOR had done wonders

A3 drivers behave relatively well on new sectors, but there is plenty of abuse on working zones and not-yet-upgraded sectors with tight curves and so.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #4318
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I used to go to Salerno a lot. Haven't been there for a while. It has something, I can't quite explain it, but there is nothing mean about this aggressive driving style in southern Italy. It's not um... personal, and there is never real roadrage, unlike the north European countries, where drivers seek revenge.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #4319
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It's less about aggressiveness than about disorganization.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #4320
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Bologna, where g.spinoza is from IIRC, has a problem that repeats in some other Italian cities: an urban ring road (around its medieval core) with many multi-directional traffic lights with many vehicles trying to go on different directions, scooters taking shortcuts and lack of proper lane signaling. A drive there peak time is surely frightening to the average Dutch or Swedish driver used to well-signed roundabouts.
Bologna ring road is quite challenging, but I never had any particular problem. Signaling could be better, although the picture you posted is not representative of the whole road. Too many traffic lights, though, but lane discipline is not a problem there, Bolognese people in general are not that aggressive or undisciplined.

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I used to go to Salerno a lot. Haven't been there for a while. It has something, I can't quite explain it, but there is nothing mean about this aggressive driving style in southern Italy. It's not um... personal, and there is never real roadrage, unlike the north European countries, where drivers seek revenge.
You may be right. Southern Italy drive style is not aggressive, is... careless. All they care is themselves, they never let you merge from another lane, they park in second or even third row, and if you're parked in the first row and find your way out blocked, it's not their problem, it's entirely yours. I find that really annoying.

Last edited by g.spinoza; September 9th, 2012 at 07:05 PM.
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