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Old September 11th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #4341
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
then why A22 turns east near Verona, if most of the traffic goes to Milan
Because it follows the course of Adige river, where it's easier to build, and serves Verona city (and its airport) better. West of it there are morenic Garda hills. As a matter of fact basically noone coming from north A22 turns right to go to Milan at Verona, because pretty much everyone leaves the autostrada at Affi, takes superstrada to Peschiera and enters A4 at Peschiera.

Most traffic goes to Modena, while a substantial but minoritarian part goes to Venice
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Old September 11th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #4342
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I still go from A22 straight onto A4. It may be a few minutes longer, but I like to stay on the same toll ticket.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 05:35 PM   #4343
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they could build SS450 to the right to serve Verona, and A22 to the left then.

also, when I tap Munich-Milan to g.maps, it gives me that: https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=So...0&sz=7&t=m&z=7
Vienna-Milan: https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=Ro...0&sz=7&t=m&z=7

neither one takes advantage of Brennerpass.

Last edited by hofburg; September 11th, 2012 at 05:40 PM.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #4344
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It would be batter have a full motorwat triangle Verona - Peschiera - Affi, like that between A11 and A12 in Tuscany.

Munich-Milan https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=So...0&sz=7&t=m&z=7
This trip involves also the 1+1 A13 in Switzerland and you need two different vignettes (the Austrian one just for few km). Probably it's better via the Brennerpass.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #4345
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I met a German once on the Brenner road at the services who was on his way from Munich to Lyon via Italy.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #4346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It would be batter have a full motorwat triangle Verona - Peschiera - Affi, like that between A11 and A12 in Tuscany.

Munich-Milan https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=So...0&sz=7&t=m&z=7
This trip involves also the 1+1 A13 in Switzerland and you need two different vignettes (the Austrian one just for few km). Probably it's better via the Brennerpass.
First: the link doesn't work!

The one that purchases that vignette is a stupid person: Bundestraße 190 all the way! Then into Germany and in the motorway A96 in Lindau!

PS: I agree on the Affi Triangle but local traffic has to be guaranteed to be toll free!
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Old September 11th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #4347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
they could build SS450 to the right to serve Verona, and A22 to the left then.
A22 was built in the 70s, SS450 30 years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88 View Post
PS: I agree on the Affi Triangle but local traffic has to be guaranteed to be toll free!
Why? Nobody pays my motorway tolls if I enter A4 at Brescia...
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Old September 11th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #4348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabri88
First: the link doesn't work!
https://maps.google.si/maps?saddr=So...0&sz=7&t=m&z=7

Fixed it. Sorry if I used maps.google.si but I copy-pasted the hogburg's post above.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #4349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
A22 was built in the 70s, SS450 30 years later.
(but it doesn't seem so)
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Old September 11th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #4350
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(but it doesn't seem so)
Can't find its inauguration date but it must be before 2000. Maybe mid 90s, so "only" 20 years later.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #4351
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as I think brennerpass serves more as a gateway towards the south Italy, than for Milan and Venice routes.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #4352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg
as I think brennerpass serves more as a gateway towards the south Italy, than for Milan and Venice routes.
Not for freight avoiding high tolls in France and customs clearance in Switzerland, plus traffic from large parts of Germany and Scandinavia. Even from Calais to Rome or Milan via Brenner is not all that much longer.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #4353
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Quote:
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Most traffic goes to Modena, while a substantial but minoritarian part goes to Venice
How much of that traffic goes to (southern) Verona? As I can see, there's just one interchange on the A4 (Verona sud), I guess most traffic uses the parallel expressway.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 01:06 AM   #4354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso

How much of that traffic goes to (southern) Verona? As I can see, there's just one interchange on the A4 (Verona sud), I guess most traffic uses the parallel expressway.
If you came from Trento/Brenner you wouldn't exit at Verona Sud. Just exit at Verona Nord, take the expressways (tangenziali) end take the exit closer to the part of the city you're going.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 02:00 AM   #4355
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Yes, Verona sud only seems suitable for Via Nazioni, but you can also continue on A4 and go to eastern Verona. Still, I don't think that's so much traffic.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 05:07 AM   #4356
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I was taking a look at an Italian detailed road map, trying to came to the conclusion of which new alignments (longer than 50km) are most desperately needing a full 2x2 controlled-access highway where none currently exists.

I came to the conclusion a highway connecting Spoleto-Terni-Rieti-L'Aquila, then multiplexing with A24 and A25 and then linking Sulmona-Castel d Sangro-Isernia-Benevento as the most useful long-distance would-be highway.

Parts of it have 1+1 expressways, but they aren't enough. A full-scale autostrada would greatly improve mobility, acting as a "spine" for several 1+1 routes connecting A1 or A14 to the "hinterland" like SS650, SS647, SS87 etc.

Chances of it getting built? Low for next 15 years unless a new economic boom is unleashed in Italy.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 08:54 AM   #4357
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And you can tell all this by just looking at a map? I like Rieti, also like the countryside around it. It attracts lots of holidaymakers.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #4358
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Quote:
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Yes, Verona sud only seems suitable for Via Nazioni, but you can also continue on A4 and go to eastern Verona. Still, I don't think that's so much traffic.
Yes because strangely enough, at Verona Sud exit there is no correspondent tangenziale exit. You have to go a bit through the city to take tangenziale from exit Verona Sud. Not worth it.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #4359
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And you can tell all this by just looking at a map? I like Rieti, also like the countryside around it. It attracts lots of holidaymakers.
No, it's like the absence of a high-capacity link along the Apennines.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 10:03 AM   #4360
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I came to the conclusion a highway connecting Spoleto-Terni-Rieti-L'Aquila, then multiplexing with A24 and A25 and then linking Sulmona-Castel d Sangro-Isernia-Benevento as the most useful long-distance would-be highway.
Spoleto-Terni is u/c as a 2x2 expressway but with great difficulties (Somma Pass). Apart from that, there is not much traffic to and from Rieti, but I agree Castel di Sangro could be linked better with, well, anywhere. Reaching Castel di Sangro is still quite a challenge, even from the seaside.
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