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Old December 12th, 2007, 07:53 PM   #421
Mateusz
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Government said that they will use the force if strike will be not ended...
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Old December 12th, 2007, 08:00 PM   #422
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Considering that in Italy most of the transportation of goods is via trucks, this sounds like a tragedy.

BTW, where did you heard they will use the force?
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Old December 12th, 2007, 08:01 PM   #423
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Those truck drivers are ******* stupid. They don't even deserve to have their demands met. Creating major problems for other individuals is not a civilized way to organize a strike.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 11:57 PM   #424
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I heard in News on First Channel of Polish Television
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Old December 13th, 2007, 12:09 AM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Driving on A4 and fighting for your small place under the sun and between trucks, you sometimes wonder, if they strike every day.
Infact I was wondering what is the difference between this pic of the strike...




..and this other one everyday pic of A4

Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
A pic of A4 motorway crossing Milan (enjoy the traffic jam )

[IMG]http://i9.************/63jp555.jpg[/IMG]
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Old December 13th, 2007, 12:27 AM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post


Wow, that's pretty awful. I wonder why people in the Italian transportation industry strike so much. I remember being at FCO waiting for a flight to CTA and the Alitalia flight next to mine was canceled because of a strike. Mine got to Catania and back OK but it makes me wonder why Italy has to suffer thought so many strikes.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 11:19 AM   #427
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Seems to be - like in France, for example - a part of working culture. Here in Germany people freak out because of a strike of locomotive drivers announced three days in advance. Sudden strikes of the staff of Ferrovie del Stato in contrast are legendary even on our side of the Alps.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 11:21 AM   #428
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Yeah, i think it's typical Italian or French to strike and hit all transportation. In the Netherlands, strikes are usually more traveller-friendly, like they don't charge you for travelling with trains or buses. That makes a clear move to the government, though you don't hit the public.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 11:59 AM   #429
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I may agree, that they could strike...it's their right...but they have to understand, that striking means creating a problem for the public.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 07:27 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TohrAlkimista View Post
I may agree, that they could strike...it's their right...but they have to understand, that striking means creating a problem for the public.
[OT]Truckers apart, trains, metros, planes workers go on strike at least a coupple of times a month; and this happens since '70s regularly (generally on Friday... why? to have a longer w.e.? ... ups )

Then: strike must be the extrema ratio for workers. In this way it is something istiitutional, an abuse which makes the 'power' of the strike weeker and weeker, because it became something usual
There are not good reasons for these infinitive series of strikes which last for decades

And another thing: only public workers (like in public transport) abuse of strike forms. In private sectors, even in industrial one, they rarely go on strike
That's because of the incredible level of protection public workers have by law (for istance they pratically can't be fired in any cases, even if they don't do the job they've to do); these distorsion bring to the distorsion of the use of strike: and the ones who pay for that are the cityzens who use public utilities

IMO

[/OT]
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Old December 16th, 2007, 07:01 PM   #431
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The A3 from Nápoli to Salerno is probably the most dangerous motorway in Europe. I tried to cover some from Google Earth.

1. An exit just after we leave Napoli. These cloverleafs are approximatly 30km/h drivable only. But if we look closer, we see that there are no entrance lanes! You come onto this busy motorway immediatly with 30 - 40km/h!
[IMG]http://i17.************/73b8utu.jpg[/IMG]

2. You have to search a long way if you want to park your car on the emergency lane in case of an emergency. There aren't any!
[IMG]http://i12.************/8fmv6km.jpg[/IMG]

3. Entrance / exit lanes? Nope never heard of them! And remember this is a tollway.
[IMG]http://i1.************/7yggx2r.jpg[/IMG]

4. Don't you love it when you driving 20 kilometers per hour and are suddenly on a busy high speed motorway? It's like your worst dream come true..
[IMG]http://i14.************/6ywf908.jpg[/IMG]

5. Phew! Some emergency stop havens! But, shit, how the hell are you ever gonna accelerate to 100km/h within 10 meters?
[IMG]http://i14.************/8a0lxs5.jpg[/IMG]

6. A very nice 90 degrees turn onto a motorway. It's like you turn on a residential street.
[IMG]http://i12.************/85okqvb.jpg[/IMG]

7. Finally some better designed stuff.
[IMG]http://i18.************/71mfxmt.jpg[/IMG]

8. And what is this? Some dust exit in Somalia? Nope! It's in one of the richest nations in the world!
[IMG]http://i10.************/6pgavsp.jpg[/IMG]

9. Finally somewhat wider stretch. Only for 1 km, but what the heck, it has at least 1km of shoulders!
[IMG]http://i6.************/7ydaw0j.jpg[/IMG]
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Old December 16th, 2007, 07:44 PM   #432
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To entrance/exit lanes: Motorway was constructed long time ago, and it was done as cheaply as possible. Security measures at that time were not very demanding. Those too short and very curvy entrance lanes are because very demanding terrain and very dense settling it was impossible to make them better with limited funds. I remember, when i went onto A3 in Salerno. Very dangerous, tunnel nearby, STOP signs, and lots of traffic. Just look at this picture, probably one of the most dangerous exits in the world (speed limit on motorway in this part is at most 80 km/h).



But on the other hand, when you are there, you just don't know, how it would be possible to do it better without major terrain deforming and a lot demolished housing.

And dusty Somalia. That (8th) picture shows construction site, so I wouldn't expect to be very clean. Also to my opinion there is about one quarter of A3 already improved to modern standards, one quarter currently in construction and rest still waiting to happen. Also, A3 is not a tollway except near Napoli.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 10:18 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
The A3 from Nápoli to Salerno is probably the most dangerous motorway in Europe. I tried to cover some from Google Earth.

1. An exit just after we leave Napoli. These cloverleafs are approximatly 30km/h drivable only. But if we look closer, we see that there are no entrance lanes! You come onto this busy motorway immediatly with 30 - 40km/h!
[IMG]http://i17.************/73b8utu.jpg[/IMG]
I don't understand where there aren't: I just see there is an 'approximative exit lane' on SE side... but I also see they're working to create it

On the motorway crossing A3 entrances are problematic

Quote:
8. And what is this? Some dust exit in Somalia? Nope! It's in one of the richest nations in the world!
[IMG]http://i10.************/6pgavsp.jpg[/IMG]
Are they working and exit (probably a future service area, I guess) doesn't exist yet?
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Old December 16th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #434
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Anyway the stretch Napoli-Salerno (which the pictures are referring) is going to be widened to 3 lanes (and the rest of the highway up to reggio calabria we told it already)
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Old December 16th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #435
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Well, at least they should know better, than constructing an exit with this geometry.

I wonder what Italian construction standards are.
Old German exits are as bad as these by the way. Totally out of fashion. If the road was very quiet, okay, not optimal, but this A3 is very busy.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 10:30 PM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Anyway the stretch Napoli-Salerno (which the pictures are referring) is going to be widened to 3 lanes (and the rest of the highway up to reggio calabria we told it already)
Yeah, but how's that gonna work? I mean, the area is very densely build-up. There are no emergency lanes, how will a 3rd lane fit? Well, it's a good thing this is modernized though.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 10:40 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I mean, the area is very densely build-up. There are no emergency lanes, how will a 3rd lane fit?
I wondered the same thing... but they say they will: I think in some stretch they have to find an alternative run
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Old December 16th, 2007, 11:00 PM   #438
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A3 Napoli-Salerno runs through a very dense urban aerea on the coastline between Naples and Salerno.Yes,it is usually busy but at the same time it is used just by the locals in order to reach Naples,Salerno or the intermediate villages.From Naples(and coming from Rome) to Salerno and viceversa everybody take the moderne and wider 3 lanes A30(Caserta-Salerno which is connected through some "raccordi" to the all highways of Naples aerea) which runs parallely to the A30 overpassing that huge and cahotic area.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Well, at least they should know better, than constructing an exit with this geometry.

I wonder what Italian construction standards are.
Old German exits are as bad as these by the way. Totally out of fashion. If the road was very quiet, okay, not optimal, but this A3 is very busy.
Actually most above pictures refer to motorway, constructed in 1929.
From German Wikipedia article:
  1. Neapel – Pompeji (opened 22th June 1929)
  2. Pompeji – Salerno (opened 16th July 1961)
  3. Salerno – Reggio Calabria (opened 13th June 1974)
That first part is actually quite fun ride, it it similar to roller coaster (narrow, ups and downs), but some short parts are already widened to 2x3+emergency lanes (and not shown yet on Google maps). As motorway is almost 80 years old, you can't expect state-of-the-art exits.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 11:43 PM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
As motorway is almost 80 years old, you can't expect state-of-the-art exits.
Since there's another and wider one which can be used as well
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