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Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:21 PM   #4461
italystf
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I would have used A17 for the RA17.

Giving a rational number to new roads (not A21racc or A57dir) it's IMHO important to keep an order in the national number system.
The good news is that we are currently getting ride of temporary designation (NSAxxx) of state roads build years ago and replacing them with normal SSxxx numbers.
Two years ago our highest number was SS700, now it's SS733, so this mean 33 temporary numbers thrown away.

Last edited by italystf; October 2nd, 2012 at 08:30 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:29 PM   #4462
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2×17=34
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:38 PM   #4463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I would have used A17 for the RA17.

Giving a rational number to new roads (not A21racc or A57dir) it's IMHO important to keep an order in the national number system.
The good news is that we are currently getting ride of temporary designation (NSAxxx) of state roads build years ago and replacing them with normal SSxxx numbers.
Two years ago our highest number was SS700, now it's SS733, so this mean 33 temporary numbers thrown away.
Don't let me even start with SS numbers...
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:55 PM   #4464
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I think we should abolish weird number such racc, dir, bis, NSAx, RAx, etc...
We should introduce a new numbering scheme for "Strade extraurbane principali" (blue expressway) starting with S1, S2, etc... completely different from normal national roads (SSx) and motorways (Ax).
Other countries already have different designations for expressways (Sx in Austria, Hx in Slovenia, Rx in CZ and SK,...).
Some number are useless, such the RA13 Sistiana - Cattinara that can become part of the A4.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 09:08 PM   #4465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
2×17=34
At least someone has a clear mind here. It's been made twice as wide as the original RA17. Hence 2xRA17 = A34.
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 09:11 PM   #4466
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I think Italy should completely re-number all its roads and highways. Only a full revamp could solve the mess.

We need different prefixes for:

- highways (2-digit)
- expressways (with controlled access, be them 1+1 or 2+2 or 1+2) (2-digit)
- national roads (3-digit)
- local/communal roads (4-digit)
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 11:20 PM   #4467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think Italy should completely re-number all its roads and highways. Only a full revamp could solve the mess.

We need different prefixes for:

- highways (2-digit)
- expressways (with controlled access, be them 1+1 or 2+2 or 1+2) (2-digit)
- national roads (3-digit)
- local/communal roads (4-digit)
How do you think we call give a 4-digit number to all local urban streets and dirt country tracks on a nation-wide scheme? We would end up with 7-8 digit numbered routes. We'll say: "I live on the communal road 1265892 near the junction with the roads 788562 and 674295"
The current system (A, SS, SR, SP, plus unnumbered local municipal roads) is fine, just introduce a different prefix for superstrade (expressways) and get ride of some stupid designation such RA, NSA, dir, bis, ter, quater, racc, SS131 d.c.n., FI-PI-LI,...
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 12:02 AM   #4468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Upgraded R17 Villesse-Gorizia will be known as A34.
Will this mean also tolling to be extended until Gorizia or state border?
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 03:09 AM   #4469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber
Will this mean also tolling to be extended until Gorizia or state border?
No, the toll booth will remain in Villesse.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 03:51 AM   #4470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
How do you think we call give a 4-digit number to all local urban streets and dirt country tracks on a nation-wide scheme? We would end up with 7-8 digit numbered routes. We'll say: "I live on the communal road 1265892 near the junction with the roads 788562 and 674295"
The current system (A, SS, SR, SP, plus unnumbered local municipal roads) is fine, just introduce a different prefix for superstrade (expressways) and get ride of some stupid designation such RA, NSA, dir, bis, ter, quater, racc, SS131 d.c.n., FI-PI-LI,...
I was referring mostly to roads that go off the perimeter of cities, towns and "frazioni". I'm not proposing giving a number to streets, though some combination that drew on already existing postal codes + suffix would be awesome to have.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 12:34 PM   #4471
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I quote myself from the Italian thread. I made some photos of SS76 works in central Italy, in the framework of Project Quadrilatero.
These pics refer to the doubling of SS76 in the Serra San Quirico-Albacina section. Works should finish in 2014.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Come promesso un po' di foto.

Imbocco galleria Gola della Rossa lato est:


Imbocco galleria Gattuccio lato nord:


Imbocco galleria Gattuccio lato sud:


Imbocco galleria Valtreara lato nord:



Piloni viadotto tra Valtreara e Sassi Rossi:


Lavori vicino Borgo Tufico:



Galleria Albacina imbocco nord:
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:41 PM   #4472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
No, the toll booth will remain in Villesse.
It will be a big new one though.

image hosted on flickr

2012-10-03-260 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

(sorry for bad photo)

Autovie Venete is taking over A34

image hosted on flickr

2012-10-03-258 par d.hofburg, sur Flickr

btw who is the owner of Autovie Venete?
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:57 PM   #4473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
btw who is the owner of Autovie Venete?
Largest shareholder is region Friuli-Venezia Giulia.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 12:02 AM   #4474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post

Autovie Venete is taking over A34
Autovie Venete already took over the RA17 in 2005 and later built the concrete median. It was managed by ANAS before. For unknown reasons it was signed as motorway on old maps, although being still single carriageway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
btw who is the owner of Autovie Venete?
The region Friuli-Venezia Giulia is the major shareholder.
This company isn't related with the Atlantia S.p.A. (formerly Autostrade S.p.A.) that manages rougly half of the Italian network and has Benetton family as major shareholder.
Autovie Venete was founded in Trieste back in 1928 with the aim of build fast roads like the Autostrada dei Laghi also in the north west. However the first section opened by Autovie was the Udine sud - Monfalcone Lisert (A4 and A23) back in 1966. Autovie Venete S.p.A. administrative headquarter is located in Trieste but the operative headquarter (where construction materials and machinery are kept) is just outside Palmanova exit.
I wonder why they used the word autovie that doesn't exist in Italian language, but it's more Spanish.

EDIT: Spinoza answered first
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Old October 4th, 2012, 12:14 AM   #4475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I wonder why they used the word autovie that doesn't exist in Italian language, but it's more Spanish.
I guess in 1928 there wasn't yet a word for this new kind of roads. "Autostrada", "autovia", "autocamionale" still competed, eventually the first one won...
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Old October 4th, 2012, 12:39 AM   #4476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Autovie Venete S.p.A. administrative headquarter is located in Trieste but the operative headquarter (where construction materials and machinery are kept) is just outside Palmanova exit.
interesting.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 11:54 AM   #4477
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According to my Italian dictionary, the word autostrada was invented in 1921. In this year the engineer Pietro Puricelli started his project of the Autostrada dei Laghi.
Other words for motorway in different languages are calques of the Italian autostrada (autobahn, autoroute, motorway, autopista, autovia, auto-estrada, autocesta, avtocesta, autoput, autosnelweg, motorveg, autopalaya,...). There are few exception such dialnice (CZ and SK), otoloy (Turkish) and freeway (AmE).
The word autostrada (unchanged from the Italian) is used also in Romania, Poland, Albania and in the past also in Sweden.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #4478
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It was invented in 1921, but it doesn't mean it was commonly used, at least in the first years.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 11:57 AM   #4479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It was invented in 1921, but it doesn't mean it was commonly used, at least in the first years.
Off course,... I guess that in Sicily or Sardinia they didn't even know what an autostrada was.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #4480
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Flemish Belgians don't know what to use. In Dutch it's snelweg, but some say autostrada, others call it autopiste...
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