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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #4801
keber
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That's not expressway in any way.
Also I wouldn't count Palermo A19-A29 connection as an expressway, it is too substandard (with at least two level intersections)
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #4802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Trieste sopraelevata has a limit of 80 and it's a real expressway. Mopeds aren't allowed. I think it should be included.
It's 80 km/h here and the rest is 70 km/h. What about the bridge to Venice? It's also some kind of an expressway.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #4803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber
Also I wouldn't count Palermo A19-A29 connection as an expressway, it is too substandard (with at least two level intersections)
AFAIK, all at-grade junctions have been replaced with interchanges or are planned to be replaced. I'm not sure if there are still 2 of them.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #4804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
What about the bridge to Venice? It's also some kind of an expressway.
No, because every kind of traffic is allowed, including pedestrians and cyclists. And for the same reasons I would exclude the inner Mestre ring (SR11+SR14) that has also some traffic light.
The Tangenziale Est di Roma may be added.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #4805
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I see now in GM, still some pedestrian crossings remain and especially in the densely populated area it does not look like expressway to me. It should be fenced at minimum with better exits.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #4806
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Last time I looked at Palermo bypass, it was weird to navigate in Google Street View.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #4807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber
I see now in GM, still some pedestrian crossings remain and especially in the densely populated area it does not look like expressway to me. It should be fenced at minimum with better exits.
So it shouldn't be included.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #4808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
No, because every kind of traffic is allowed, including pedestrians and cyclists. And for the same reasons I would exclude the inner Mestre ring (SR11+SR14) that has also some traffic light.
The Tangenziale Est di Roma may be added.
SS1 (e80) Should be also added:
SS1 (e80) Grosseto - Civitavecchia is an expressway except for Ortobello-Chiarone and Tarquinia-A12. SS1 Aurelia is expressway again from Torrimpietra - Rome (inside GRA)

Last edited by Alien x; December 30th, 2012 at 12:31 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #4809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
So it shouldn't be included.
I agree. I traveled through Palermo in 2009 and I had a feeling that this road is just a normal dual carriageway road with (mostly) denivelated intersections. Speed was not high and traffic culture was ... khm ... no traffic culture whatsoever.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 11:20 PM   #4810
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Asse nord - sud in Ancona, about 10 km of expressway.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #4811
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In most superstrade type-C road (in Puglia for example) every kind of traffic is allowed.


strada extraurbana secondaria (meaning less importance road) or type-C road. This category contains all the roads in non-urban context that are neither autostrada (type A) nor strada extraurbana principale (type B). This means that a dual carriageway that may not be classified as type-B road, since it does not meet such quality standards, belongs to this category. For type-C roads, there aren't neither special signage nor access restrictions, unless a specific sign is placed. Speed limit is 90 kilometers per hour, on both single and dual carriageways.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_carriageway#Italy

C-road (superstrada-like) with access restrictions:
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstrada#Categoria_C_con_restrizioni

C-road (superstrada-like) with no access restrictions:
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstrada#Categoria_C_senza_restrizioni

Last edited by lucaf1; December 30th, 2012 at 12:18 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 03:49 AM   #4812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
That's not expressway in any way.
Also I wouldn't count Palermo A19-A29 connection as an expressway, it is too substandard (with at least two level intersections)
2x2 and grade separated exits
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Old December 30th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #4813
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Speed limit is just 50 km/h, anyone can use it and it's run-down at many places (although I agree it's some sort of an expressway too). The eastern Ravenna bypass is a real superstrada OTOH (although speed limit is stupid 50 km/h as well ).
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Old December 30th, 2012, 07:29 AM   #4814
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Damn, they've also lowered speed limit on Trieste bypass from 70 to 50 km/h. Does anyone actually follow these silly speed limits?

Last edited by Verso; December 30th, 2012 at 07:37 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #4815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
Speed limit is just 50 km/h, anyone can use it and it's run-down at many places (although I agree it's some sort of an expressway too). The eastern Ravenna bypass is a real superstrada OTOH (although speed limit is stupid 50 km/h as well ).
There is one or two traffic lights on the Ravenna bypass. Or at least there were when I drove there 2-3 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
Damn, they've also lowered speed limit on Trieste bypass from 70 to 50 km/h. Does anyone actually follow these silly speed limits?
I think no.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #4816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
2x2 and grade separated exits
Sorry, expressway is not just this, then many urban roads in larger cities would become expressways.

Expressway is like this:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.61409...50.67,,0,-4.09

but not this:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.11637...12,3.37,,0,8.8
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.12239...12,3.37,,0,8.8

(driver of that Google Streetview car has to be from Sicily )
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Old December 30th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #4817
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there are also some same-grade exits at SS131, but anyway i think we can consider it being an expressway.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 01:14 PM   #4818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type
there are also some same-grade exits at SS131, but anyway i think we can consider it being an expressway.
Wow, it looks very dangerous. It's not even a small junction but a junction with another SS road. Are there many like this on the SS131?

EDIT: there is at least a dozen of them but all are planned to be replaced by interchanges.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; December 30th, 2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #4819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Wow, it looks very dangerous. It's not even a small junction but a junction with another SS road. Are there many like this on the SS131?
i have travelled SS131 from Porto Torres to Abbasanta (the center of the main Y axis at the island) and i have seen 3 or 4 of them, all near Abbasanta.
there are probably some more more to the south direction Cagliari, Google Maps show that too.

dangerous - might be. speed limit 50 km/h doesn't help too much, but good thing is that visibility is very good, crossroad is quite wide, left-turn lanes are long enough, and traffis is not that large there.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #4820
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At particular junction I see 80 km/h speed limit (this means actual speeds of 100 km/h or more). However I agree there is no big problem for left turners from main road, it is the safety problem for users of a side road who turn left onto main road exactly at this point:
https://maps.google.hr/maps?q=sassar...,,0,19.48&z=18
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