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Old December 30th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #4821
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really 80. but next one has 50.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 02:23 PM   #4822
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Maybe they should put a traffic light there
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Old December 30th, 2012, 03:02 PM   #4823
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Where else in the world you can see three 2-lanes roads next each other?
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=via+del...Lazio&t=h&z=18
- Viale dei Romagnoli
- Via del Mare (SS8)
- Via Ostiense (SS8bis)

The "Via del Mare" opened as 2-lane "autostrada" in 1928. It was reclassificated in the 60s as SS8 (previously this number was referred to the "Via Ostiense" that was later renumbered SS8bis).
The "Via del Mare" is the only road in Italy that can be used only by cars. Not trucks, buses, motorcycles, moped, bycicles and pedestrians.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #4824
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Private driveways on the expressway SS16\E55 between Bari and Mola di Bari:
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=bari&hl...01.71,,0,-0.73
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=bari&hl...,292.03,,0,4.2
I wonder if their residents can access their houses by foot\bicycle\moped\tractor.

Small roads connected with other roads than the expressway are closed.
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=bari&hl...2,1.19,,0,8.95
BTW, I never seen a street name sprayed on the wall.
And off course, litter is never missing there

That's the best: a pedestrian gate on the freeway!
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=bari&hl...28.06,,0,19.74

This section of "expressway" has a posted speed limit of 50. However, a white sign with "zona abitata 50" doesn't exist in our highway code so you can legally refuse a fine
http://maps.google.it/maps?q=bari&hl...290.33,,1,1.87

Last edited by italystf; December 30th, 2012 at 04:23 PM.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 01:00 AM   #4825
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"50" is in a circle, like speed limit signs, but it's poorly visible. Anyway, that road doesn't seem to be a superstrada.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 01:10 AM   #4826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
"50" is in a circle, like speed limit signs, but it's poorly visible. Anyway, that road doesn't seem to be a superstrada.
No, if you remove those private driveways (that exist only in the Bari - Mola section), you'll have a real SS16 superstrada all the way from Foggia to Brindisi (and, with other numbers, further south to Lecce and Maglie).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 02:46 AM   #4827
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seems like that road was normal 1x1 before and just recently got upgraded?
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Old December 31st, 2012, 10:30 AM   #4828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post

Yes but OSM is sometimes wrong. SS 510 Sebina Orientale is shown as superstrada but it's actually not.
True, but it's impressive nevertheless. Grade separated junctions. 90 km/h (70/90 in tunnels) lots of bridges and tunnels, with the newest section boasting a 5+ km long one. But it's 1+1, built on seriously rugged terrain.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 10:54 AM   #4829
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Agreed, but that's not the point. It's not a superstrada.

Besides, there is no single 5+ km tunnel on that road. Pisogne bypass is made up of two 2.5km tunnels with a brief open space in between.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:15 AM   #4830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg
seems like that road was normal 1x1 before and just recently got upgraded?
The whole SS16 from Padova to Otranto was a normal 1x1. In many places it was later built with expressway standards. Those new sections may be in "variante" (the new highway follows a different allignment than the old road, that is downgraded to provincial or municipal road) or may being built directly duplicating the old road. In this case, usually, side service roads ("complanari") are being built to be used to access propertries located on the side of the highway. In that case the "complanare" wasn't build, maybe because there's no room or because in the past they didn't care.
However, the SS16 Foggia - Brindisi is entirely divided and grade-separated (unlikely the Sardinian Y it hasn't U-turns and at-grade junctions).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:19 AM   #4831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza
Agreed, but that's not the point. It's not a superstrada.

Besides, there is no single 5+ km tunnel on that road. Pisogne bypass is made up of two 2.5km tunnels with a brief open space in between.
1+1 roads that are completely grade-separated are informally called "superstrade" even if they aren't. Wikipedia lists them as "superstrade a carreggiata singola". In Austria and Switzerland some such roads are classificated as Schnellstrassen.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:21 AM   #4832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
1+1 roads that are completely grade-separated are informally called "superstrade" even if they aren't. Wikipedia lists them as "superstrade a carreggiata singola". In Austria and Switzerland some such roads are classificated as Schnellstrassen.
I usually find 1+1 grade-separated roads associated with the acronym "SSV" (Strada a Scorrimento Veloce).
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Old December 31st, 2012, 02:17 PM   #4833
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Italy has quite an impressive network of 1+1 high-performance expressways (grade-separated, no roadside access, gentle grades and curves), especially in the regions of Molise, Basilicata and Sicilia. They can be a bliss to drive when traffic is not heavy. My favorite among them is the rather short but amazing SS 682 (Siderno-Rosarno sector)

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Old December 31st, 2012, 02:40 PM   #4834
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I don't like 1+1 expressways. SS 690 Sora-Avezzano is a nightmare to drive when stuck behind a truck. People tend to think they're on a 4-lane expressway and overtake recklessly.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 02:40 PM   #4835
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I remember travelling in 2006 on the recently-opened SS693 del Gargano, that was signed as SSV even on km signs.
In NE Italy I know the SR177 A28-Sequals and the SS52 A23-Tolmezzo.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 03:19 PM   #4836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't like 1+1 expressways. SS 690 Sora-Avezzano is a nightmare to drive when stuck behind a truck. People tend to think they're on a 4-lane expressway and overtake recklessly.
MAybe they should put some bollards (plastic) or a small raised median to prevent vehicles from overtaking.

Of course a 2+2 or even 2+1 expressway is better, but I was comparing the 1+1 expressways of Italy with their alternatives (usually local roads with hundreds of curves).
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Old December 31st, 2012, 03:34 PM   #4837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist

MAybe they should put some bollards (plastic) or a small raised median to prevent vehicles from overtaking.
Divided 1+1 road? So if you have a very slow truck in front of you, you have no other choise than staying all the way behind him! They should allow overtaking in straight sections with good visibility.

Are there some sections of 2+1 roads in Italy? I cannot find any (apart few hundred meters near intersections, off course).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 03:48 PM   #4838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Divided 1+1 road? So if you have a very slow truck in front of you, you have no other choise than staying all the way behind him! They should allow overtaking in straight sections with good visibility.
I agree with Suburbanist. Bollards would be put only in no-overtake zones, where currently is the continuous line.

Quote:
Are there some sections of 2+1 roads in Italy? I cannot find any (apart few hundred meters near intersections, off course).
Only one that I know of is SS16 adriatica from intersection with SS76 southbound, but only for few hundred meters due to high slope.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 03:56 PM   #4839
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Divided 1+1 road? So if you have a very slow truck in front of you, you have no other choise than staying all the way behind him! They should allow overtaking in straight sections with good visibility.
I'm suggesting putting bollards on sections that do not allow overtaking.

Some 1+1 expressways are wide enough to even accommodate a median barrier.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 04:16 PM   #4840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'm suggesting putting bollards on sections that do not allow overtaking.

Some 1+1 expressways are wide enough to even accommodate a median barrier.
Some sections of 1+1 expressway SS 156 Frosinone-Priverno have such median barriers.
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