daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 1st, 2013, 09:47 PM   #5001
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Any updates about the construction of A12 between Livorno and Roma?
People trying to stop the project by appealing to judicial courts; Ministry of Economy deeming it "too costly to be built" and apparently stopping the project. Same old, same old.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 1st, 2013, 09:58 PM   #5002
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza

People trying to stop the project by appealing to judicial courts; Ministry of Economy deeming it "too costly to be built" and apparently stopping the project. Same old, same old.
They should at least complete the Civitavecchia - Grosseto section because the SS1 is not expressway there. Civitavecchia - Tarquinia is already u/c.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2013, 12:02 AM   #5003
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
They should at least complete the Civitavecchia - Grosseto section because the SS1 is not expressway there.
Yeah, but it's the most controversial section of the whole motorway. Over the Orbetello stretch a full-blown war is being fought.

Quote:
Civitavecchia - Tarquinia is already u/c.
But from what I hear, veeeeery slooooowly.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #5004
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

According to Istat, the Italian Institute for Statistics and Demographics, deaths on the Italian roads were cut in half in 10 years, since 2001. In 2011, road casualties fere 63.6 for million inh., 6% less than in 2010.

Other interesting statistics: we have 610 cars / 1000 inh (above EU average), cargo traffic on Italian motorways was 23.5 million tons/km/10,000 inh, below EU average.

http://online.stradeeautostrade.it/n...00013020499003
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #5005
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

I watched on Youtube a TV report from 1961 about roads and traffic in Rome. They said that a motorway would be built "soon" between Rome and Livorno.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #5006
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

Quoting user brick84 from Italian thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
Un'immagine del ponte crollato

A bridge collapsed on SS 115 Agrigento-Sciacca in Sicily. Nobody was hurt because some drivers noticed the pavement sinking and reported to authorities, who closed the bridge before it collapsed.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2013, 03:55 PM   #5007
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

According to European Commissioner for Transport Siim Kallas, Italy presented to the Committee a project for A31 "Valdastico North" different from the already decided one. Months ago, in Italy, it was decided for a long (15+ km) tunnel under Folgaria plateau and a connection with A22 at Besenello, south of Trento, but the European committee received a different project: a more northern stretch, from Piovene Rocchette to Vattaro, and connecting to SS47 Valsugana.

Long story short: boy, what a mess.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #5008
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Is it a mess-up indeed or a late turn for an alternative described by some as the superior option?
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2013, 11:10 PM   #5009
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

I think they (and by they I mean Attilio Schneck and his "Autostrade Brescia Verona Vicenza Padova" company) realized the only feasible option is to fight aside Trentino and not against it. As of now, Trentino is too powerful.

Last edited by g.spinoza; February 6th, 2013 at 09:15 AM.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2013, 11:16 PM   #5010
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,880
Likes (Received): 1364

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Is it a mess-up indeed or a late turn for an alternative described by some as the superior option?
Superior options are always turning up first. Then compromises come, one more expensive than the other.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #5011
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

I read yesterday on "Montagne360", official magazine of CAI (Italian Alpine Club), than recently Italy signed the Transport protocol of Alpine Convention.

Anyone who knows something more?
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #5012
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

According to Attilio Schneck, chairman of "Autostrade Brescia Verona Vicenza Padova", 7 km of new motorway on A31 "Valdastico south" will open next May, from the recently opened stretch at Montegaldella-Longare to Albettone-Barbarano. For the whole 54 km new motorway we will have to wait until 2014
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #5013
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21254

A Stelvio tunnel?

I was thinking here... a 1+1 tunnel under the Stelvio would be quite an interesting proposition.

SS38 is a generally good route, it just need a few bypasses. It has a lot of tunnels between Tirano and Bormio that make it easy to drive there.

On the other side, the route between Merano and Landeck (Austria) is generally a good one, apart from a few missing bypasses easy to build.

Now if they built a new tunnel and improved the route between the base entrance on the NE side and Prato allo Stelvio, and made some improvements, we'd have a good option to drive between Milano and Innsbruck not involving the route via Trento. They could make the tunnel severly restricted to trucks if they are concerned with being overloaded by trucks.

A tunnel built at an acceptable base altitude that wouldn't make it so difficult to operate in winter would have to be no longer than 9km.
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #5014
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

In general, I find ridiculous that in 21st we still have to be subjected to the weather, close road passes and have no other options to go to the other side. I'd like very much tunnels under major passes which are closed in wintertime.

About Stelvio, the road from Milan to there (through Valtellina) is not prepared to sustain large amounts of traffic. It's inadequate even today, and slowly being replaced by a better one (a 1+1 superstrada).
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #5015
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Italy is quite good on this point (Stelvio is an exception to the rule). In Switzerland most passes don't have a road at all, and when there is one it is usually closed in winter. Only a few are kept opened (Lucomagno/Lukmanier, Julier/Giulia/Güglia) or have a train shuttle (Furka, Vereina).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #5016
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,522
Likes (Received): 2122

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Italy is quite good on this point (Stelvio is an exception to the rule).
Only with major international passes. The only internal passes kept free of snow are those serving ski areas.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #5017
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21254

[QUOTE=g.spinoza;100068178]
Quote:
About Stelvio, the road from Milan to there (through Valtellina) is not prepared to sustain large amounts of traffic. It's inadequate even today, and slowly being replaced by a better one (a 1+1 superstrada).
Yeah, but that is a not-that-narrow valley where new roads should be easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Italy is quite good on this point (Stelvio is an exception to the rule). In Switzerland most passes don't have a road at all, and when there is one it is usually closed in winter. Only a few are kept opened (Lucomagno/Lukmanier, Julier/Giulia/Güglia) or have a train shuttle (Furka, Vereina).
Many Italian passes close on winter, especially those 2000m+

I think they could keep the Seltvio open year-round (or at least more than 42-45 weeks per year) if they wanted to.

It used to be the major route Milano-Wien back on 19th Century before rail links were in place, a strategic point that was the border for a time as well. I'm sure they had some resources to keep it open more than 5 months per year.
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #5018
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post

Only with major international passes. The only internal passes kept free of snow are those serving ski areas.
The problem is that some roads are subjected to the risk of avalanches so even if you can remove the snow they would be dangerous to drive on. There are 2000m passes open year-round and 1000m passes closed in winter.

@Suburbanist: during the Austrian empire the road was open in winter, but only for sledged pulled by horses. They didn't clean the road.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #5019
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,629
Likes (Received): 19425

I think you're talking about a 14 km tunnel (at 1500-1600 m) or 17 km tunnel (at 1200 m) to get through the Stelvio. Just south of Bormio is the second-longest wannabe tunnel entirely in Italy (Galleria Cepina Sant'Antonio - 7925 m) but it has a few short stretches in open air.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #5020
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think you're talking about a 14 km tunnel (at 1500-1600 m) or 17 km tunnel (at 1200 m) to get through the Stelvio. Just south of Bormio is the second-longest wannabe tunnel entirely in Italy (Galleria Cepina Sant'Antonio - 7925 m) but it has a few short stretches in open air.
3rd after the Variante di Valico will open.

A tunnel below the Stelvio would be useful but 14km is too long to be financially feasible. Maybe they could build a shorter tunnel with both ends at around 2000m.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, autostrada, highways, italia, italy, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium