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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #5121
JB Colbert
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There is no flat areas in the centre of Sicily.
Moreover this costruction methodology prevents land consumption, because disembowel the land isn't necessary thus is less expensive; prevents the "barrier effect" because you can pass easily under the highway in order to reach a opposite side; reduces the noise due to traffic.

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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:30 AM   #5122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
This highway is known for have been built on on long (and thus expensive) viaducts even in relatively-flat areas where they aren't needed. It probably happened because ANAS wanted to give more job to some "friend" construction companies and consequentely the construction costs paid with public money skyrocketted.
This part of highway will be expensive to renovate because of these viaducts.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:46 AM   #5123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Another in Genova:
https://maps.google.si/maps?q=sal%C3...alija&t=m&z=17

Exit Celle Ligure on A10:
https://maps.google.si/maps?q=sal%C3...alija&t=m&z=17

And I believe that there are more such examples on Italian motorways.

Also new railway Genova-Ventimiglia crosses underground under many A10 tunnels. Tunnels on different levels are not very rare actually and also nothing special in engineering sense.
And another one near Brescia:
http://goo.gl/maps/OeDuA
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Old April 10th, 2013, 12:33 PM   #5124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB Colbert View Post

There is no flat areas in the centre of Sicily.
Wondering then, where did I drive in 2009?

Most long viaducts on A19 are unnecessary, you don't need to be an experts to see that.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #5125
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@keber:
I don't know where you drove in 2009...
In the middle there are almost only hill.

The costs of a viaduct highway is less than a "normal" highway because you have to excavate/disembowel, move and/or dispose of the excavate ground, and so on.
You don't need to be an experts to know that.

@Luki_SL:
No.
The asphalt costs of a highway section are the same either for a viaduct section and for a "normal" section.
If a section needs to be replaced, you have only the cost of 50-100 meter of viaduct.
Finally, if you decide to enlarge from 2x2 lane to 2x3 lane is still valid what I wrote before, you have to consider the costs for excavate/disembowel, move and/or dispose of the excavate ground.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #5126
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Some of the long viaducts on A19 might have been overkill, but some aren't: the soil is unstable, especially when saturated with water, the costs to replacing a good thick chunk of soil to build the roadbed over it are not much higher than building pillars, which also provide associated benefits of allowing water (mostly) and wildlife (second) to flow freely.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:30 PM   #5127
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A19 between Resuttano exit (a ridiculously complicated one) and SS640 exit is laid mostly on low viaducts although most would not be needed or could be way shorter. Some other very long viaducts toward Catania could be also done much shorter because I didn't saw a lot of "precisous farmland".
And don't worry, I know pretty well how much does cost this or that, I design such things.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #5128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
This highway is known for have been built on on long (and thus expensive) viaducts even in relatively-flat areas where they aren't needed. It probably happened because ANAS wanted to give more job to some "friend" construction companies and consequentely the construction costs paid with public money skyrocketted.
Nothern stereotipie

I think is not so different in Lumbardy...
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:13 AM   #5129
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Serra Cazzola viaduct - SS 640 Caltanissetta-Agrigento (Sicily)

with Etna



by Salvatore Picone
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Old April 11th, 2013, 02:29 AM   #5130
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Quote:
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Nothern stereotipie

I think is not so different in Lumbardy...
Off course it isn't. For example it was extimated that in the 80s building a short section of underground in Milan costed 3-4 times a similar work in Hamburg, for the same reason (bribery).
It's not a northern stereothype, is a sad real fact about the whole country.
Tangentopoli and such things aren't urban legends unfortunately.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 09:30 AM   #5131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
Nothern stereotipie

I think is not so different in Lumbardy...
Is not only a matter concerning stereotypes, we are dealing with people who open their mouths to let out air.

People who see ghosts everywhere, Italy is full up of this kind of trolls.

If you try to explain why a certain solution has been chosen, they answer with another issue regarding nothing with the first one.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #5132
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Francesco Bettoni, chairman of BreBeMi, announced that part of A35 motorway, from Chiari-Castrezzato toll barrier to Romano-Fara Olivana will open on November 2013.

http://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/H...ra_a_novembre/

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Old April 11th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #5133
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SS106 Jonica

The second phase of the 18 km Catanzaro Lido bypass opened to traffic today. It's a 4-lane Superstrada.

http://www.stradeanas.it/index.php?/...taglio/id/3441
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Old April 11th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #5134
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Some pics from ANAS can be found here (I cannot paste them) http://www.lestradedellinformazione....98.1.12.1.html
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Old April 12th, 2013, 12:13 AM   #5135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Some pics from ANAS can be found here (I cannot paste them) http://www.lestradedellinformazione....98.1.12.1.html
Even if it's a superstrada, the new SS106 looks wider and safer than many old mountain autostrade (the old A3, the old A1 BO-FI and the A10).
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Old April 12th, 2013, 02:17 AM   #5136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Some pics from ANAS can be found here (I cannot paste them) http://www.lestradedellinformazione....98.1.12.1.html
Here they are, and I didn't upload them anywhere.









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Old April 13th, 2013, 12:18 AM   #5137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Off course it isn't. For example it was extimated that in the 80s building a short section of underground in Milan costed 3-4 times a similar work in Hamburg, for the same reason (bribery).
It's not a northern stereothype, is a sad real fact about the whole country.
Tangentopoli and such things aren't urban legends unfortunately.
Ok, capisco il concetto, ma tangentopoli č un fenomeno successivo alla realizzazione della A19, che č stata completata nel 1975.



Comunque,
l'ho percorsa ieri e oggi e presto faccio un sunto sulle condizioni generali (e sui lavori) dell'autostrada.
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old April 13th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #5138
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This is an international forum, English only please.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 03:05 PM   #5139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
Ok, capisco il concetto, ma tangentopoli č un fenomeno successivo alla realizzazione della A19, che č stata completata nel 1975.


Comunque,
l'ho percorsa ieri e oggi e presto faccio un sunto sulle condizioni generali (e sui lavori) dell'autostrada.
Tangentopoli ("Bribesville" in English) was just the moment were the system of corruption in Italy was revealed, documented and judged. But everything happened BEFORE that moment and everybody knew that, but there was no evidence.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 01:08 AM   #5140
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A19 Palermo-Catania

Junction of Resuttano (Caltanissetta) - work in progress


[IMG]http://i46.************/21kjbbn.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i48.************/30jo2v5.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i50.************/2ij4wlf.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.************/v7awc6.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.************/2ecp6wi.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i46.************/vqrthy.jpg[/IMG]
(taken by me)
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte

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