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Old April 16th, 2013, 12:00 AM   #5161
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That's a fair point. Who pushed it through then? It's very unusual for such a small city to have a subway line.
I became too recently a Brescian to know well the story of this subway, which stretches more than 30 years in the past. I know this has been a leitmotiv of right-wing city politics, but I don't know what's really behind this.

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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Aren't there still plans to extend the A27 to Pieve di Cadore?
As a matter of fact there should be, but I think that strong opposition by local communities and lack of interest by private investors are putting on hold the project.
To be honest, there are local communities who favor the autostrada, first of all the town of Longarone.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 12:24 AM   #5162
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
To be honest, there are local communities who favor the autostrada, first of all the town of Longarone.
Which is also the only significantly large community on future A27 alignment.

As of A27 extension towards Germany, that would be really expensive project and also very complicated, matching and probably exceeding Gotthard autobahn.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #5163
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In Cortina they also oppose the plan of simple 1+1 bypass that would made the SS51 passing outside the town. Maybe because it spoil the landscape, maybe because Cortina would loss passing tourism.
I remember in 2004 when I travelled down from Garmisch Partenkirken to Belluno. Motorway until Bressanone and then mountain road all the way south. We stopped in a cafè in central Cortina without leaving our route! Businesses earn some nice money also from that kind of "tourism".
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Old April 16th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #5164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That's a fair point. Who pushed it through then? It's very unusual for such a small city to have a subway line.
Maybe one of a few example of community leaders looking further than their nose, enduring the weather, taking their risks and ignoring overly conservative stances.

It's a peculiar city. A fairly dense and small historic core is surrounded by a fairly large industrial belt. Commuters needed this subway like hell. One month into full excercise it's really crowded and I bet they could use some extensions or a second line.

It's still ramping up though, as soon as it attains the frequency it's designed for, it will probably get less crowded.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #5165
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I'm sure when the Variante di Valico opens all criticism ("it took 10 years", "the road we have is just fine") will disappear overnight. Or on the first summer where you can travel from Bologna to Firenze Sud without bottlenecks all way long.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #5166
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I'm sure when the Variante di Valico opens all criticism ("it took 10 years", "the road we have is just fine") will disappear overnight. Or on the first summer where you can travel from Bologna to Firenze Sud without bottlenecks all way long.
Unless you ask to someone form Ripoli, the village that risks to be washed away by a landslide generated by tunnel digging.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #5167
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Originally Posted by WalkTheWorld View Post
It's a peculiar city. A fairly dense and small historic core is surrounded by a fairly large industrial belt. Commuters needed this subway like hell. One month into full excercise it's really crowded and I bet they could use some extensions or a second line.
Nobody denies that Brescia needed some kind of transportation from the outer belt to the inner city. Question is "was the subway the best option"? Remember that this subway costed more than a billion euro, which is an awful lot of money for such a small city. Many argued that a surface tram or a tram-train (like the one they're thinking of to Brescia West) could have been a better cost-effective solution.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #5168
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In Cortina they also oppose the plan of simple 1+1 bypass that would made the SS51 passing outside the town. Maybe because it spoil the landscape, maybe because Cortina would loss passing tourism.
I remember in 2004 when I travelled down from Garmisch Partenkirken to Belluno. Motorway until Bressanone and then mountain road all the way south. We stopped in a cafè in central Cortina without leaving our route! Businesses earn some nice money also from that kind of "tourism".
Cortina is a peculiar thing. Few people actually live there, most houses are holiday accomodations for rich people living the rest of the year elsewhere, and for tourism workers. Through traffic generates business for many and nuisance for few.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 12:08 PM   #5169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Nobody denies that Brescia needed some kind of transportation from the outer belt to the inner city. Question is "was the subway the best option"? Remember that this subway costed more than a billion euro, which is an awful lot of money for such a small city. Many argued that a surface tram or a tram-train (like the one they're thinking of to Brescia West) could have been a better cost-effective solution.
A surface tram can have a negative impact on road traffic and it's not easy to fit in old built-up areas.
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Old April 16th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #5170
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
A surface tram can have a negative impact on road traffic and it's not easy to fit in old built-up areas.
You have to plan it carefully
Besides, it can't be harder than digging a 7-km tunnel beneath an ancient Roman city...
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Old April 16th, 2013, 04:26 PM   #5171
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Italian cities are crowded and claustrophobic. Underground networks are the way to go. Surface networks will have to compete with already scarce space for cars, scooters, pedestrians.

Just a few have wide boulevards to fit trams like Milano (and even so only outside the ancient perimeter) without taking scar car lanes.

Some cities have too many buses and their exclusive lanes. Bologna, for instance, should build a subway and open its major routes for through car traffic (Also this route) with some car tunnels as well near the point where both cross each other (to avoid car traffic near the main piazza maggiore). Palermo would also be well served by a subway network (maybe even dual road-subway tunnels).

Actually Italy needs some national laws to put an end to the chaos of local traffic. For instance, a national law drastically curbing the ability of cities to establish ZTLs (limited traffic zones) or exclusive bus lanes where no good alternative exist for cars.
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Old April 17th, 2013, 01:07 AM   #5172
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2013-04-16-924 by hofburgh4, on Flickr
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Old April 17th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #5173
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Ah, first A34 sign, interesting. Is this on the A4?
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Old April 17th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #5174
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Ah, first A34 sign, interesting. Is this on the A4?
No, at the beginning of the A34 itself.
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Old April 19th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #5175
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Highly unlikely considering the extremely high costs and the "environmental" opposition in Trentino - Alto Adige. In the far future it's more likely (but also more useless) a connection with the A23.
I guess, it would be more useful to prolong the Valdastico Highway A31 up to Trento and A22, because this would cause a shorter and cheaper solution to link Venice with Val' Adige and also Munich!
A connection between the end of A27 and A23 would be a pure waste of money and senceless, too, especially when italy has some other problems with infrastructure!
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Old April 20th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #5176
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A3 Salerno-Reggio Calabria



http://fabriziovilla.photoshelter.co...000Ooxp3hcHdM8
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Old April 20th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #5177
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That pic is 6 years old.
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Old April 20th, 2013, 04:24 PM   #5178
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That pic is 6 years old.
True, but it's still a nice picture
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old April 21st, 2013, 05:07 PM   #5179
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"Mille miglia" race pics on Desenzano del Garda street view:

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.470379...82.47,,0,17.54
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Old April 21st, 2013, 10:38 PM   #5180
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
"Mille miglia" race pics on Desenzano del Garda street view:

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.470379...82.47,,0,17.54
Wow. Was Google camera mounted onto one of the participants? Or possibly one of the assistent cars.
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