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Old June 6th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #5321
g.spinoza
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Strait of Messina is quite different from Sognefjord, currents are very strong there. I think a floating bridge design has been shelved due to this problem.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #5322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
awesome view

The Taromina exit is really an interesting one.

By the way, I'm not following the last hiccups by CAS (it just annoys me all this political stone-throwing that goes with CAS and its highways/projects). Has CAS sorted out their organizational mess?

I so badly want some foreign toll road operator to takeover all CAS assets
Unlikely to change something.

The only solution is to delete the CAS and replace it with a body more serious (even Anas). But it is only a dream.



P.S.
In this month contract for lots Rosolini-Modica motorway Siracusa-Gela
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old June 10th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #5323
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Works on A12, Civitavecchia-Tarquinia lot:




And the works for Albinia junction:



Thanks to marco1963 on the Italian forum

Last edited by g.spinoza; June 10th, 2013 at 10:56 AM.
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Old June 10th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #5324
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Some pics of the "new" (rebuilt) service area in Lainate (A8/A9)...

[IMG]http://i40.************/bdw9hs.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i40.************/eajfuw.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i40.************/2ug2upv.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i40.************/jkc4s2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i41.************/jue6wg.jpg[/IMG]
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Old June 13th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #5325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The bridge will be ultimately built.
It won't.
Sicilians don't even have drinking water served in all homes and you think this rotten state is going to finance the construction of the most useless (and expensive) bridge in the world?
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Old June 13th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #5326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
And the works for Albinia junction:



Thanks to marco1963 on the Italian forum
Been right there few days ago (spending the weekend at the Argentario peninsula). They are already mounting the bridge.

Btw there's no other visible work on the SS1 Aurelia between Grosseto Sud (end of "Variante Aurelia") and Albinia.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 01:18 PM   #5327
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But is it lack of money that preclude proper water delivery systems? I'm not entirely sure... If there are just a couple isolated cases, that could be easily solved.

I'm mentioning that because as far as I can remember this exact excuse has been used over, and over, to say that nothing big should be build in the island. From high-speed rail links to airports to highways to the bridge. It is always the "Sicilians who don't have running water". How many of them actually don't have running water, and of those, how many are living in legally authorized buildings?

I think this argument was thrown around since the first major infrastructure projects built there in the 1970s.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #5328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It is always the "Sicilians who don't have running water". How many of them actually don't have running water,
It depends on the provinces. AFAIK, Agrigento, Caltanissetta, Palermo and Trapani have running water only few hours in a day, few days in a week (especially in summer). The other provinces should be more or less ok.

Quote:
and of those, how many are living in legally authorized buildings?
Some years ago a research found 150 thousand illegal buildings in Sicily. But that's an understatement: many others are "legal" now but weren't so when they were built, because many amnesties "legalized" illegal buildings.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 01:35 PM   #5329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
But is it lack of money that preclude proper water delivery systems? I'm not entirely sure... If there are just a couple isolated cases, that could be easily solved.

I'm mentioning that because as far as I can remember this exact excuse has been used over, and over, to say that nothing big should be build in the island. From high-speed rail links to airports to highways to the bridge. It is always the "Sicilians who don't have running water". How many of them actually don't have running water, and of those, how many are living in legally authorized buildings?

I think this argument was thrown around since the first major infrastructure projects built there in the 1970s.
That's not the point wether the "lack of water" argument is entirely true or not.
The point is, Siciliy lacks of important modern infrastructures, things that are much more prioritary that the Ponte sullo Stretto.
Have you ever tried to get a passenger train from Messina to Palermo?
Well, it takes something like 3h30min at best. On a single, non-electrified line.
And let's not talk about other itineraries.

So, in my opinion, that Messina junction is not only ugly (a valley completely ruined by concrete), but a bestiality because it is a terrible waste of money, money that could be used for some more useful primary infrastructures.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #5330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
It depends on the provinces. AFAIK, Agrigento, Caltanissetta, Palermo and Trapani have running water only few hours in a day, few days in a week (especially in summer). The other provinces should be more or less ok.
But the problem there is more related to sourcing water than having distribution systems, isn't it? There are endless court battles surrounding purposes to build reservoirs, they always overplay the earthquake risk card, and more recently proposals for desalination plants have been torpedoed by Legambiente extemists.

Then, you had as a result people building enormous private water holders of up to 5m³ or more. Which will further strain the system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
That's not the point wether the "lack of water" argument is entirely true or not.
The point is, Siciliy lacks of important modern infrastructures, things that are much more prioritary that the Ponte sullo Stretto.
Have you ever tried to get a passenger train from Messina to Palermo?
Well, it takes something like 3h30min at best. On a single, non-electrified line.
And let's not talk about other itineraries.

So, in my opinion, that Messina junction is not only ugly (a valley completely ruined by concrete), but a bestiality because it is a terrible waste of money, money that could be used for some more useful primary infrastructures.
The only train I ever took in the island was between Siracusa and Catania. I also traveled on the Etna railway once. Other than that, I've covered the island by road pretty well.

In any case, this is usually a problematic argument because the source of money to build the bridge (60% private money) might not be available for other projects.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #5331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
But the problem there is more related to sourcing water than having distribution systems, isn't it? There are endless court battles surrounding purposes to build reservoirs, they always overplay the earthquake risk card, and more recently proposals for desalination plants have been torpedoed by Legambiente extemists.

Then, you had as a result people building enormous private water holders of up to 5m³ or more. Which will further strain the system.
I think the significant part of problem is due to leaks in the pipe system. But yes, lack of sources is important.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #5332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
It won't.
Sicilians don't even have drinking water served in all homes and you think this rotten state is going to finance the construction of the most useless (and expensive) bridge in the world?
??

False.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
That's not the point wether the "lack of water" argument is entirely true or not.
The point is, Siciliy lacks of important modern infrastructures, things that are much more prioritary that the Ponte sullo Stretto.
Have you ever tried to get a passenger train from Messina to Palermo?
Well, it takes something like 3h30min at best. On a single, non-electrified line.
And let's not talk about other itineraries.
mmmh....

situation, right now:

[IMG]http://i46.************/28hgz6g.jpg[/IMG]

near Falcone (province of Messina)
[IMG]http://i33.************/1673sio.jpg[/IMG]

Terme Vigliatore (Messina)
[IMG]http://i41.************/2pyql9y.jpg[/IMG]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
So, in my opinion, that Messina junction is not only ugly (a valley completely ruined by concrete), but a bestiality because it is a terrible waste of money, money that could be used for some more useful primary infrastructures.
Ok, this is an opinion shared.

But i'm not agree.
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old June 13th, 2013, 03:14 PM   #5333
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Hello, I'm from the Basque Country (Spain) and I like a lot Italy, specially I want to met the south (Campania, Adriatic, Sicily...) Perhaps one day...

- I have only one question (now, perhaps in the future more): I read in english wikipedia that motorway A-3 is refurbishing between Napoli and Calabria. Also I read that the rhytme of that refurbishement is slow and expensive. Well I know why, but my question is: it is already finished? if not, how long before?
Yes, I know my english is not the best. Grazzie
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Old June 13th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #5334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
Hello, I'm from the Basque Country (Spain) and I like a lot Italy, specially I want to met the south (Campania, Adriatic, Sicily...) Perhaps one day...

- I have only one question (now, perhaps in the future more): I read in english wikipedia that motorway A-3 is refurbishing between Napoli and Calabria. Also I read that the rhytme of that refurbishement is slow and expensive. Well I know why, but my question is: it is already finished? if not, how long before?
Yes, I know my english is not the best. Grazzie
Circa 350 km out of 440 are refurbished and complete.
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Old June 13th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #5335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
situation, right now:
Apparently the situation is better now.
But I'm quite sure the electrification is recent (e.g. < 5 years), and the times have stetched.
Few years back it was a pain in the a**.
And by the way, notice that 2/3 of sicily are not served by direct lines but only by local lines (trapani, agrigento, siracusa).
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Old June 13th, 2013, 07:12 PM   #5336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
Apparently the situation is better now.
But I'm quite sure the electrification is recent (e.g. < 5 years), and the times have stetched.
According to Wikipedia, the electrification of Messina-Palermo was completed on 15 October 1955
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Old June 13th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #5337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
According to Wikipedia, the electrification of Messina-Palermo was completed on 15 October 1955
completed or started?
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Old June 13th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #5338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
completed or started?
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovia_Palermo-Messina
Tra il 1951 e il 1955 si ebbe l'elettrificazione della linea a cui fece seguito il raddoppio tra Palermo e Fiumetorto tratto in comune con la linea per Agrigento e Catania.

Dal 15 ottobre 1955 la trazione sull'intera linea è elettrica a 3000 Volt corrente continua.
Between 1951 and 1955 the line was electrified, then the line was doubled bewteen Palermo and Fiumetorto (stretch shared with line to Agrigento and Catania).

Since 15 October 1955 the line is completely electrified (3000 Volts, direct current)
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Old June 14th, 2013, 02:54 AM   #5339
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nice distance sign

image hosted on flickr

2013-06-11-1101.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr

double shoulder

image hosted on flickr

2013-06-11-1100.jpg by hofburgh4, on Flickr
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Old June 14th, 2013, 04:43 AM   #5340
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Those distances...
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