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Old June 24th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #5401
italystf
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I am also wondering. The new A22 will only improve the connection to the north and to the west, but not to the east and not to Modena! Is the traffic from Sassuolo to Verona/Parma so high? Or are there plans for a further extension to the sea, to Massa or to Lucca?
Modena - Lucca was hypotized long ago, but it's unlikely to being built because of the harsh terrain and thus very high costs and NIMBY opposition. It's more realistic the TI-BRE corridor (Tirreno - Brennero), an extention of the A15 from Parma to the A22 at Nogarole Rocca.

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- A4, third lane in Veneto: according to Autovie Venete, works are going slow because of many thefts in construction sites. In Noventa di Piave construction site alone, thieves stole 400k € worth of equipment (batteries, diesel oil, two excavators, many generators).
Such events will agevolate the motorway construction in Balkan countries.
Seriously, it's very sad that a company that employs several millions of €s for ambitious projects can't spend few thousands to secure its equipment, with anti-theft alarms and private guards.
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Old June 24th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #5402
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This "Italian style" junctionplaning has some disadvantages, but also some nice plus sides.

It's of course sometimes complicated to get to the main route, but once aour are on it, local traffic won't bother you as much as it would e. g. here in germany, where junctions are close together and lotz of traffic uses the Autobahn for just going one or two junctions and thus hindering the non-local traffic.

I like the coillector-road concepts like Verona or Udine has them, with parallel, untolled lines for the local traffic. Milan doesen't have them, and driving the A 4 from Novara to Bergamo is consequently often a mess.

Of course, if traffic becomes to dense, the best concept of road construction will fail.
Yes, the "complanari" idea is pretty cool. They are building them also in Rome, on the A24, from Palmiro Togliatti exit to Lunghezza (Roma est toll point). They will solve many traffic problems on that part of Rome: almost 70/80% of the car doing that highway (which is free 'til Ponte di Nona exit) will exit at GRA or one of the urban road between the city and the GRA.

You can see some pic of the project under construction here: http://www.stradadeiparchi.it/media/...complanari.pdf It is in Italian, but is full of images explaining.

Works will end in May 2014.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 12:20 AM   #5403
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A3 Salerno-Reggio Calabria

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Old July 2nd, 2013, 06:00 PM   #5404
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A3 Salerno-Reggio Calabria


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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:13 PM   #5405
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Green: completed
Yellow: U/C
Orange: works will start soon
Light blue: pubblic auction in progress
Red: still in planning stage

Purple dotted line: regional borders

White dot: completed exit
Yellow dot: U/C exit
Red dot: planned exit
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:16 PM   #5406
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I see no blue part... Where is it?


How long will it take to have the planning lots at work?
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:21 PM   #5407
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I read that it is the most expensive project of road that is under construction in Italy.

- Section between Salerno and Calabria is not tolled to promote tourism and commerce in the South?
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:37 PM   #5408
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I read that it is the most expensive project of road that is under construction in Italy.

- Section between Salerno and Calabria is not tolled to promote tourism and commerce in the South?
Well this was the plan when the original A3 was built. No tolls to help develop the Calabria region.
The new A3 still doesn't foresee toll barriers, but IMHO it can't last long without.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 03:55 PM   #5409
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The new A3 still doesn't foresee toll barriers, but IMHO it can't last long without.
As ANAS plans electronic tolling in freeflow traffic I believe there is no need to plan any toll barriers which should be thing of the past.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:15 PM   #5410
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As ANAS plans electronic tolling in freeflow traffic I believe there is no need to plan any toll barriers which should be thing of the past.
The electronic tolling ANAS is planning to introduce is not a real thing. It has been postponed a number of times, last but not least from Pedemontana Lombarda.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:09 PM   #5411
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How will the Pedemontana be tolled then, if it will be tolled and really built? AFAIK it has a lot of delays and works have basically not yet started, except half of the two Como and Varese bypasses, and the A8-A9 section.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 07:16 PM   #5412
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How will the Pedemontana be tolled then, if it will be tolled and really built? AFAIK it has a lot of delays and works have basically not yet started, except half of the two Como and Varese bypasses, and the A8-A9 section.
I guess toll booths will be built, as in other motorways.

EDIT: I was wrong, it was BreBeMi who abandoned electronic tolling and chose traditional booths. But I bet Pedemontana will follow.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 07:40 PM   #5413
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I think toll booths are an expense Italian highways could do without.

They are expensive to operate, and much more so to install on new projects (they take up land, and impose complicated junctions).

However, I do see a silver lining: it avoid the proliferation of exits, which affects some un-tolled highways/expressways, like A3. If toll booths were abolished, some cities would start demanding more exits built, to serve local traffic, and that would increase congestion and force lower speed limits.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 07:43 PM   #5414
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I think toll booths are an expense Italian highways could do without.

They are expensive to operate, and much more so to install on new projects (they take up land, and impose complicated junctions).

However, I do see a silver lining: it avoid the proliferation of exits, which affects some un-tolled highways/expressways, like A3. If toll booths were abolished, some cities would start demanding more exits built, to serve local traffic, and that would increase congestion and force lower speed limits.
The smart answer to this thing is called "Complanare", which works pretty well, to separate the real highway from the free one full of exits to serve the city center.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 07:46 PM   #5415
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Yes, but that takes some money to build things like they've done with A14 in Bologna.

Chances of ending with a mess like A3 in Napoli are higher, once you "just" need some on-off ramps.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 09:05 PM   #5416
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I think toll booths are an expense Italian highways could do without.

They are expensive to operate, and much more so to install on new projects (they take up land, and impose complicated junctions).

However, I do see a silver lining: it avoid the proliferation of exits, which affects some un-tolled highways/expressways, like A3. If toll booths were abolished, some cities would start demanding more exits built, to serve local traffic, and that would increase congestion and force lower speed limits.
I think we aren't ready to a full-electronic tolling system, too many occasional drivers (people that use motorways once in a while), foreign traffic, elderly not familiar with technology.
The right thing to do is to abolish manned cash toll booths. Leave only automatic cash lanes, they're cheaper to maintain since they don't employ workforce. The problem would be how to fire a such amount of people without generating a revolt.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #5417
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The problem would be how to fire a such amount of people without generating a revolt.
Stupid argument. It's like when computers and word processors became readily available and could be used by everyone - what to do with an armada of typists.

They will do something different. We just need EU wide compatible system, then foreign traffic argument won't apply anymore. And I believe that today's automatic cash machines (especially many those on Italian autostradas) are much more complicated than electronic tolling could ever be. Look around the world.

Last edited by keber; July 4th, 2013 at 10:36 AM.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #5418
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Stupid argument.
It's not a stupid argument. It's not like there's plenty of jobs available around. You can fire all the people you want, but when they reach critical mass and go to the squares with pitchforks, you'd want you handled things differently.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 01:35 PM   #5419
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They could stop hiring new toll collectors when the existing reach retirement age or change job. Then, with an investment of few thousands of euros, manned toll lane that remain unserviced, can be converted into automatic cash lanes. Within 30 years all manned cash lanes will disappear.
To speed this process, toll collectors, especially younger male, can be offered higher wages to change job and become contruction workers within the same motorway company.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #5420
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It's not only in Italy, in Spain we have electronic tolls (Via-T) but also all the toll plazas have personal to collect manual tolls. We're not Switzerland at all. I think France has the same system I don't know surely.
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