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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:12 PM   #5521
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:16 PM   #5522
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According to IVASS (Istituto per la Vigilanza sulle ASSicurazioni, "Insurance Control Authority"), 4 million vehicles in Italy (one out of eight) are uninsured. Their number seems to be growing.
http://online.stradeeautostrade.it/n...00013070799001
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #5523
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
In the Netherlands the blue car sign has the official name of "autoweg". In Austria and Germany a "bundestrasse" could mean anything, but they are always B-roads.
Nope! I've no idea about Austria, but in Germany it is called "Kraftfahrstraße".

btw: Why do we discuss this topic in the Italian (and Russian and ...) thread and not in a own one?

PS: I think the wikipedia definition is not bad.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:32 PM   #5524
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post

Nope! I've no idea about Austria, but in Germany it is called "Kraftfahrstraße".

btw: Why do we discuss this topic in the Italian (and Russian and ...) thread and not in a own one?

PS: I think the wikipedia definition is not bad.
Because we've diverted off topic a little. Oh deary me. As official as the names might be, I don't think anyone uses it in chitchat.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:37 PM   #5525
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As official as the names might be, I don't think anyone uses it in chitchat.
Ok, call it "Landstraße" .
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:39 PM   #5526
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Yes, I do agree with wikipedia.

Even if there are some type-C road that really resembles type-B.

A quick example, SS2 bis (Cassia Veientana):


This road is a type-C, with speed limit of 90 km/h.

Instead, SS80 racc (di Teramo) is a type-B with speed limit of 110 km/h:



I see no differences at all between the two roads.

Moreover, this one is the RA11 Ascoli-Mare (an Autostrada/Motorway, type-A, green signs and speed limit of 130 km/h):



Again... I see no differences between the first road, and the third. But the speed limit is completely different, and also the classification.

All three are 100% free.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #5527
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Ascoli-mare has emergency lane, Cassia Veientana only a narrow shoulder. Lanes seem narrower too.
By the way, you cannot judge a road just by looking at it. You must take into consideration slopes, curvature radii, length and shape of acceleration/deceleration ramps etc..
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #5528
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Ascoli-mare has emergency lane, Cassia Veientana only a narrow shoulder. Lanes seem narrower too.
By the way, you cannot judge a road just by looking at it. You must take into consideration slopes, curvature radii, length and shape of acceleration/deceleration ramps etc..
Google Street view does not show the road properly. Ascoli-Mare has not the em. lane, I tried: just half of a normal car fits into that.

There's another thing you must consider: the will of the municipalities. Some roads have lower classification because they don't want to do the normal mantainance works. In fact the asphalt is in awful conditions.

I always respect speed limits, and in Cassia bis I see cars and bikes overtaking me at 140/150 km/h.

No-one checking. Never.
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Old July 7th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #5529
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No-one checking. Never.
That's another - sad - story...
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Old July 7th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #5530
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Are you sure? In the United States, an expressway is defined by the federal government’s Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices as a divided highway with partial control of access. But yes, in Europe we have our own definition of the word expressway (I guess that's in the Globish language).
This road in New Zealand (built in the 1950s) is classificated as motorway!
Similar case in Italy, the old RA17, now A34 was classicicated as motorway even when it was undivided!
In my 1979 road atlas, the Brindisi-Lecce and Taranto-Grottaglie expressways and even the 1+1 Matera bypass are signed as motorways.

Here some mistranslations of the word highway:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostrada_dell%27Alaska
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostrada_transandina
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Old July 7th, 2013, 10:08 PM   #5531
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Hello, today I have two questions :

- Why Italian Government has no built a motorway on the south adriatic side of the peninsula? (E-90 highway between Gallipoli, Taranto, Crotone and Calabria) It's not necessary? Or it is very difficult to build?

- Is there a planned motorway in the south coast of Sicily? Highway E-931 and SS-115. The same questions that above: It is not necessary? Lack of money? Very dificult to build?
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Old July 7th, 2013, 10:37 PM   #5532
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Hello, today I have two questions :

- Why Italian Government has no built a motorway on the south adriatic side of the peninsula? (E-90 highway between Gallipoli, Taranto, Crotone and Calabria) It's not necessary? Or it is very difficult to build?

- Is there a planned motorway in the south coast of Sicily? Highway E-931 and SS-115. The same questions that above: It is not necessary? Lack of money? Very dificult to build?
1)
There's no Adriatic there, but Ionian.
In this area there's not a lot of traffic compared to more populated and industrialized areas of the peninsula. However the region Apulia has a quite wide network of expressways (superstrade) that connect major towns. Taranto is connected by expressways to Brindisi (that is also connected to Salento peninsula) and to Basilicata and Calabria (SS106, whose expressway part ends near Sibari, not far away from the A3). An extension of the SS106 expressway fro Sibari towards south (Crotone) is planned but it won't be completed in the next years. Calabria, unlikely Apulia, is very mountanious and highway contruction requires a lot of technical and economical efforts, plus there are the infiltrations of the mafia that don't help...

2)
The A18 Siracusa - Gela was planned already in the 70s. The section Siracusa - Rosolini opened in 2008. Works for the Rosolini - Ragusa section will start in the next years. The part from Ragusa to Gela will probably never built in the next 20 years. From Gela to Castelvetrano (junction with the A29) it was never planned. An expressway is U/C between Caltanissetta (junction with the A19) and Agrigento.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 02:37 AM   #5533
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BTW dual carriageway roads that are neither autostrada (type A) nor strada extraurbana principale (type B) were build with old "highway code".

Until 1992 (new highway code) dual carriageway roads in Italy were divided into 3 categories:

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Old July 8th, 2013, 02:46 AM   #5534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Similar case in Italy, the old RA17, now A34 was classicicated as motorway even when it was undivided!
It didn't have the motorway sign, but yes, it was a raccordo autostradale (should've been a raccordo superstradale ).
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Old July 8th, 2013, 04:52 AM   #5535
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Old July 8th, 2013, 04:58 AM   #5536
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The meaning of the blue car sign varies by country. In most cases these are used for 4-lane expressways only, but in other countries, such as the Netherlands, Switzerland and Germany, it is used for two-lane roads as well, which may or may not have grade-separated interchanges.
Well, anyway it always means that slow vehicles (including tractors, mopeds, bicycles) and pedestrians are banned.
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Old July 8th, 2013, 09:43 AM   #5537
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In my 1979 road atlas, the Brindisi-Lecce and Taranto-Grottaglie expressways and even the 1+1 Matera bypass are signed as motorways.
I confirm, they were classified as "raccordi autostradali", however the signage was blue, not green.
Anyway, after a major rework in the 90ies (mostly adding the emergency lane and rebuilding all the bridges), Brindisi-Lecce is now a normal Expressway with 110 km/h limit.
(The Taranto-Grottaglie already had the emergency lane and was not reworked then.)
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Old July 8th, 2013, 09:55 AM   #5538
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Originally Posted by javimix19 View Post
- Why Italian Government has no built a motorway on the south adriatic side of the peninsula? (E-90 highway between Gallipoli, Taranto, Crotone and Calabria) It's not necessary? Or it is very difficult to build?
Generally between Puglia and Basilicata there's a good network of 4-lanes roads which make the need of new motorways quite non prioritary.

From Taranto down to the Calabria land limit there's SS 106 which is a modern 2-carriageway+shoulder road (except the Nova Siri gap).
Same from Bari to Brindisi to Lecce, The Lecce ring, the Lecce-Gallipoli, the Lecce-Maglie, the Taranto-Brindisi roads.
A14 motorway was meant, at least in very old maps, to be prolonged from Castellaneta down to Calabria, but it was a high cost project and the upgrading of SS 106 in the 80ies-90ies made that project basically obsolete.

The A14 terminal branch from Castellaneta to Massafra (the current last few km) was meant to be the beginning of a branch that would have served as a second Taranto tangenziale, arriving at the "Ponte Punta Penna" bridge on the Taranto inner sea, and eventually continuing towards the salento peninsula.
This too never happened. However currently there's a project that somehow inherits from that, because the "ponte Punta Penna" expressway is being prolonged towards Talsano and Pulsano towns southwards of Taranto.
If the road was to be prolonged northwards, too, it junctioning beyond Massafra up to A14 T-junction on SS100 would only seem "natural".
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Old July 8th, 2013, 10:50 AM   #5539
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Autoroute A8/Autostrada A10 Genova-Ventimiglia
Look at the international tunnel crossing the border with Google StreetView: apparently France and Italy consider each half a separate thing, so that signs of each side give only the length of their side, not the total length of the tunnel

An additional note about the T-roads: Mont Blanc and Fréjus tunnels were for a long time unconnected from the Italian motorway network, that's why the weren't numbered as part of A5 and A32, but as separate motorways called T1 and T4.

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Google maps is a mess in this sense, at least in Italy. Full motorways like A21 racc are rendered as expressways, and expressways like SS76 around Fabriano like normal roads. I wouldn't rely on Gmaps for a classification.
I always thought that Google Maps shows (at least in Europe) tolled grade separated roads with one or two thick dark orange lines (depending of the number of carriageways), untolled ones with light orange (beside the mistakes like the SS76).
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Old July 8th, 2013, 10:52 AM   #5540
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Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
A14 motorway was meant, at least in very old maps, to be prolonged from Castellaneta down to Calabria, but it was a high cost project and the upgrading of SS 106 in the 80ies-90ies made that project basically obsolete.
Sibari was the proposed terminus, as far as I know. Which is equally the terminus of the first phase of the SS106 upgrades, the place offering the most convenient transfer from the Ionian coast to the A3. That A3 is also the very reason why there is no coastal motorway: not on the Ionian side and not on the Tyrrhenian side. The A3 goes straight through the middle of the peninsula in order to offer convenient access to as many towns in the Mezzogiorno as possible. It southernmost extreme goes a bit to the West, but important towns are served by decent branch roads. Building motorways on either coast would render the A3 itself, constructed and reconstructed at enormous costs, a bit of a waste.

One should not be distracted by the number E90 for this coastal route. Ever since the A3 was built, the route via the Ionian coast has not had any European importance, at least not South of Sibari. Routing E90 via that part of the SS106 is just one of the many silly decisions in the network of E-routes.
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