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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:25 PM   #5721
ChrisZwolle
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The Jesolo peninsula is very congested with tourists. The coast is lined with resorts and large camp sites, but there are no decent standard roads out of there. I don't think a causeway or tunnel under the lagoon is the most cost-effective option though. I do think the Jesolo area should have some kind of superstrada to A4.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #5722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
I'd never park in the city center of Rome/Milan/Turin, for example.
It depends. I once quite successfully found a free parking spot within a walking distance of Duomo in Milan. No doubt it helped being Sunday midday.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #5723
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I once found a free parking spot in the centre of Rome for my 7 metre van. Also on a Sunday, 10 minute walk from the Vatican.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #5724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
All Italian cities were "city without cars" until the turn of 20th century, when modernity arrived
I hope you know Venice is without cars not because it's still in 19th century, but because it has canals in lieu of roads...
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #5725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The Jesolo peninsula is very congested with tourists. The coast is lined with resorts and large camp sites, but there are no decent standard roads out of there. I don't think a causeway or tunnel under the lagoon is the most cost-effective option though. I do think the Jesolo area should have some kind of superstrada to A4.
There's a project for that, "autostrada/superstrada" del mare:
http://www.ilgiornaledivicenza.it/st...n_superstrada/
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #5726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
When visiting Venice by car, it's anyway cheaper to park on the mainland and take a train.
It depends by the number of people in the car. Autosilos near Mestre station are also costly, plus you have to buy train tickets that obviously are individual.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #5727
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think they should have built an expressway through the city in the 1960s, when that would have been allowed, and then another causeway to the Lido.
You reminded me an old advertizing video

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Old August 9th, 2013, 12:03 AM   #5728
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For me, if there is a train/rail transport system present in that given area, I'll use it as much as possible.

But if there is no train, then that's where the automobile comes in. =)

P.S.
Question:
Where is the google maps location for this one:

The Maserati factory in Grugliasco




Thanks
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Old August 9th, 2013, 12:13 AM   #5729
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Speaking of car factories... I already have booked tickets to visit Ferrari Museum + Factory next week
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my clinched highways
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Old August 9th, 2013, 12:36 AM   #5730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Question:
Where is the google maps location for this one:

The Maserati factory in Grugliasco


Thanks
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=corso+...+Piemonte&z=15
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Old August 9th, 2013, 01:20 AM   #5731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
It depends. I once quite successfully found a free parking spot within a walking distance of Duomo in Milan. No doubt it helped being Sunday midday.
Now it is impossibile since there is the Area C (kind of Congestion charge like London): you have to pay to enter it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I once found a free parking spot in the centre of Rome for my 7 metre van. Also on a Sunday, 10 minute walk from the Vatican.
Good one! It is not always easy... Sometime I have to search for more than half an hour to find one...
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Old August 9th, 2013, 01:23 AM   #5732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Thanks

Btw, I did some checking and it seems like a trip between the Grugliasco factory and the Maserati Headquarters in Modena would take around 3 hours or so.

The journey involves a lot of A1/E35 and A21/E70.

Now the new Maserati Quattroporte (Sixth Generation model) has a 3.8 liter Twin Turbo V8 with 530 Horsepower (or CV for our Italian folks) and 650 Newton Meters of Max Torque (up to 710 Nm with the overboost function)

The car has an 8 speed ZF automatic transmission/gearbox. 0-100 km/h in less than five seconds (manufacturer-stated).

Speedometer order in km/h is: 0 20 50 80 110 140 170 200 230 260 290 320 350

Since I use shift using speedometer increments, that would mean that I would be driving at the 200 km/h using 8th gear...................if road traffic conditions are good AND Italian law enforcement officials will let me be.

The journey could only costs 2 hours maximum

Otherwise, since Italian max speed limit is 130-150 km/h, then I could probably drive at the 140 km/h bracket using 6th gear.

If that happens, then maximum of 3 hours total driving time is possible.

@to the Italian forumers here
What do you think? Is it possible?
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Old August 9th, 2013, 01:30 AM   #5733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Thanks

Btw, I did some checking and it seems like a trip between the Grugliasco factory and the Maserati Headquarters in Modena would take around 3 hours or so.

The journey involves a lot of A1/E35 and A21/E70.

Since I use shift using speedometer increments, that would mean that I would be driving at the 200 km/h using 8th gear...................if road traffic conditions are good AND Italian law enforcement officials will let me be.

The journey could only costs 2 hours maximum

Otherwise, since Italian max speed limit is 130-150 km/h, then I could probably drive at the 140 km/h bracket using 6th gear.

If that happens, then maximum of 3 hours total driving time is possible.

@to the Italian forumers here
What do you think? Is it possible?
Those highways are controlled by the Tutor system, that checks average speed between two portals. So, it is really dangerous for your license to drive at that speed.

Going at 200km/h in higways means 821€ fine, 10 points less and suspended license for 6 months. I would not try it.

Just a quick thing: there are no higways with 150kph limit: our law permits that, but no-one uses it.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 01:32 AM   #5734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I hope you know Venice is without cars not because it's still in 19th century, but because it has canals in lieu of roads...
you are missing my point.

all italian cities had to accommodate cars when they appeared (and electricity, and telephone lines). cities equally antique with milenia of history. the carved up streets, boulevards and expressways.

moreover, many other cities in Italy and abroad used to have canals that were filled up, walls that were torn down (and made into major traffic thoroughfares) etc.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 01:36 AM   #5735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Those highways are controlled by the Tutor system, that checks average speed between two portals. So, it is really dangerous for your license to drive at that speed.

Going at 200km/h in higways means 821€ fine, 10 points less and suspended license for 6 months. I would not try it.

Just a quick thing: there are no higways with 150kph limit: our law permits that, but no-one uses it.
If that's true, then damn.

With such hefty penalties, I may not leave Italy without facing some criminal charges

Alright then:

How about the 140 km/h bracket @ 6th gear? Surely the local police can still tolerate that, right?
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Old August 9th, 2013, 01:53 AM   #5736
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Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
If that's true, then damn.

With such hefty penalties, I may not leave Italy without facing some criminal charges

Alright then:

How about the 140 km/h bracket @ 6th gear? Surely the local police can still tolerate that, right?
We have 5% tolerance, so you won't be fined until 136km/h. If you drive at 140 all the way you risk the minimum penality, of you drive at 140 just in some moments nothing will happen because the Tutor calculates average speed and not spot speed.
You won't get any criminal charge for speeding, only for DUI or for running away after an accident.
Thanks God we have hefty penalities, I don't like people like you driving at 200 and sending innocent people to hospitals and cemetries.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 09:11 AM   #5737
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
We have 5% tolerance, so you won't be fined until 136km/h. If you drive at 140 all the way you risk the minimum penality, of you drive at 140 just in some moments nothing will happen because the Tutor calculates average speed and not spot speed.
You won't get any criminal charge for speeding, only for DUI or for running away after an accident.
Thanks God we have hefty penalities, I don't like people like you driving at 200 and sending innocent people to hospitals and cemetries.
Yo dude, sorry if I sounded like I was a speed freak. Granted 200 Km/h may be a bit of an overkill without me knowing and considering the specifications of the road I would be driving in (i.e. 85th percentile rule)

So I sincerely apologize to you italystf (since it's not really my intention to show recklessness).

I just wanted to know the maximum "legal" AND "allowable" speed that I can drive through the said journey.

Again I'm sorry if ever I offended you (or anyone else for that matter).

Anyways:
@italystf and to other Italians

So you guys mentioned that 140 km/h max speed is still too risky?

How about 110 km/h bracket @ 5th gear?



Still okay?
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Old August 9th, 2013, 09:58 AM   #5738
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moreover, many other cities in Italy and abroad used to have canals that were filled up, walls that were torn down (and made into major traffic thoroughfares) etc.
Yes, and that was wrong.

I'm surprised we're even talking about this.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #5739
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@italystf and to other Italians

So you guys mentioned that 140 km/h max speed is still too risky?

How about 110 km/h bracket @ 5th gear?

Still okay?
140 km/h it's a speed that you can easily use: as I think you know, each car shows a bit more than the real speed, and so 140 km/h showed on the instrument is 135/137 real kph. That keeps you under the legal speed.

Of course, going at that speed, you will see many cars overtaking you, because many people don't follow rules.

Anyway, going less than 10km/h over the speed limit gives you a fine of 39€, and no suspended license.

There are no criminal offences in speed overtaking: as italystf said you can only have them with DUI, running away from an accident or driving with no license.

Moreover, the higways you will drive through are very straight, as you can see from google maps. There are no hard bends or hills to climb/descend.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #5740
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Yes, and that was wrong.

I'm surprised we're even talking about this.
Some of it was wrong (for example Mussolini's "works" in Rome), but much of it was inevitable. We shouldn't forget that the primary task of the city is for living and doing business not just for tourists to admire how people lived in the past.
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