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Old August 30th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #5841
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Stelvio pass had never been cleaned in winter. In the past they used to cross it with horse-drawn sledges. You can remove the snow from alpine roads but you cannot protect them from avalanches falling from above.
I know Wikipedia isn't exactly bible, but:

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Fino al 1915 il valico era percorso tutto l'anno da un servizio di diligenze grazie all'efficiente opera degli spalatori durante l'intero inverno. Dopo la vittoria del 4 novembre entrambi i versanti furono italiani, il passo perse il suo significato originale di collegamento Vienna-Milano e fu decisa la chiusura invernale.
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Until 1915 the pass was open year-round to horse-drawn carriages, thanks to the work of shovellers. After Italian victory in WWI, both sides became Italian and the pass lost its original imporance as Wien-Milan link, so it was not kept open during winter any more.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 10:13 AM   #5842
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Interesting. One would expect the main route from Vienna to Milan to run via the Semmering and Venezia. Much more flat terrain, lower mountain crossing, and fewer kilometers too.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 10:34 AM   #5843
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Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Interesting. One would expect the main route from Vienna to Milan to run via the Semmering and Venezia. Much more flat terrain, lower mountain crossing, and fewer kilometers too.
I think it has not to be taken literally. Maybe it's more like "Italy-Austria link".
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Old August 30th, 2013, 10:38 AM   #5844
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Oh, thank you. I didn't find it because I looked for the english page of the disaster, not of the dam.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #5845
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Am I the only one who finds these city names written across the carriageway on exits rather useless?
No, you're not only one. This is probably a remnant of history, when overhead signage was really expensive and not used often and it was more viable to paint directions on the pavement. Now I see such exit directions only on Italian motorways except with some isolated cases elsewhere.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #5846
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Those city names written on the asphalt are rather useless since there are a lot of signs showing you the right direction. This paintings should be used only at major motorway-motorway interchanges.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #5847
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Originally Posted by keber View Post
No, you're not only one. This is probably a remnant of history, when overhead signage was really expensive and not used often and it was more viable to paint directions on the pavement. Now I see such exit directions only on Italian motorways except with some isolated cases elsewhere.
Funny thing is, they write those names as if one reads every word along the way... so for instance, exit Ascoli Piceno is marked as "Piceno" "Ascoli", because one is supposed to read the sign word for word

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Old August 30th, 2013, 12:22 PM   #5848
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Even worse are those written across both lanes (because there are too many letters) like Giualianova or Portugruaro.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #5849
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There are quite some things on autostradas that would be considered obsolete or "thing from the past" in most other countries (like words on asphalt, too short and too narrow decelerating and accelerating lanes)
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:10 PM   #5850
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Maybe because Italy built the majority of its autostrade before other countries (France and Spain come to mind). Standards were different back then.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #5851
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too short and too narrow decelerating and accelerating lanes
They have this a lot in Italy. My girlfriend (beginner driver) told me that she wouldn't be able to enter the motorway on some accelerating lanes because they were too short and too narrow.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #5852
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I think it has not to be taken literally. Maybe it's more like "Italy-Austria link".
Probably true. But then still, there would not be many routes where the Stelvio has an edge over the Brenner, which serves the same Tirol - Pianura Padania link. Could it be that there were military reasons to keep open the Stelvio, thus serving border patrol?
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #5853
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I think driving style is also a little more "sporty" then in other countries

I remember when I had to enter on a motorway, I think near Molfalcone, the guy on the right lane didn't let me, I accelerated as much as my car could, and the Audi A4 was not a slow car, and when the accelerating lane was ending I had to go left, so I started doing it slowly, and the driver was forced to let me, but instead of breaking a little, he went also left, just that he was sitting between lanes...
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Old August 30th, 2013, 03:27 PM   #5854
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Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Probably true. But then still, there would not be many routes where the Stelvio has an edge over the Brenner, which serves the same Tirol - Pianura Padania link. Could it be that there were military reasons to keep open the Stelvio, thus serving border patrol?
Stelvio and Brennero aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone in the region north of Milan, wanting to go to Germany and not passing through Switzerland, must pass Stelvio AND Brenner (or, better yet, Resia/Reschen) if they don't want a long detour through Verona.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #5855
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Stelvio and Brennero aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone in the region north of Milan, wanting to go to Germany and not passing through Switzerland, must pass Stelvio AND Brenner (or, better yet, Resia/Reschen) if they don't want a long detour through Verona.
Although there may be some reasons to drive from I to D skipping CH, especially for goods vehicles (you have to clear custom procedures and Swiss police often stop foreigns trucks\vans\campers and check them for overweight), I doubt that many people nowadays drive through the Stelvio pass as part of a long-distance trip without touristic interests. Too slow, steep and narrow road, especially for trucks or vehicles with trailer.
Another alternative from Milan to Brenner\Resia is via Lecco-Sondrio-Passo Tonale-Passo Mendola-Bolzano-A22 North. Easier road and open year-round.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #5856
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Although there may be some reasons to drive from I to D skipping CH, especially for goods vehicles (you have to clear custom procedures and Swiss police often stop foreigns trucks\vans\campers and check them for overweight), I doubt that many people nowadays drive through the Stelvio pass as part of a long-distance trip without touristic interests. Too slow, steep and narrow road, especially for trucks or vehicles with trailer.
Another alternative from Milan to Brenner\Resia is via Lecco-Sondrio-Passo Tonale-Passo Mendola-Bolzano-A22 North. Easier road and open year-round.
Of course I was not talking about today. I was referring to pre-WWI geopolitics.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #5857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Stelvio and Brennero aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone in the region north of Milan, wanting to go to Germany and not passing through Switzerland, must pass Stelvio AND Brenner (or, better yet, Resia/Reschen) if they don't want a long detour through Verona.
True. It's North of Milan to Germany. Or Vorarlberg, or the other way around. Between the hub cities of Milan and Innsbruck/Munich themselves, and their hinterlands, I think you're always looking at the Brenner. If only it was because the route via Verona is not a detour on those routes, while it runs through terrain that is much easier.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #5858
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Originally Posted by keber View Post
No, you're not only one. This is probably a remnant of history, when overhead signage was really expensive and not used often and it was more viable to paint directions on the pavement. Now I see such exit directions only on Italian motorways except with some isolated cases elsewhere.
I don't know about that: This sort of thing https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...00142&t=k&z=20 is starting to appear over here relatively recently. (The example I linked to has been around for a while, but that's because it's the first one I could think of.) So I'd guess it's meant to reinforce existing signage. Perhaps because it's (at least this particular example is) a TOTSO.
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Old August 30th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #5859
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I don't know how many of you know this, but they're working on the completion of A52 North Tangenziale of Milan (informally called "peduncle"), closing the ring. They're upgrading the current road in the missing link, a local road called SP46, to autostrada status.
It will run for a short while parallel to existing SS35 Milano-Meda. Long story short, that stretch is going to carry 14 total lanes (!). At least, that's what newspaper say, because I think they count emergency lanes too. As a matter of fact, Milano-Meda is 3+3 and future A52 2+2.

Here are some renders:


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Old August 30th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #5860
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CIPE now approved the final bit, right? It sounds like good news, but mostly because it will take local/regional traffic off the A4 between Milano Certosa and Milano Est. I would still expect through traffic between Switzerland and Verona to follow the A8/A9 until Milano Certosa and take the A4 east.
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