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Old September 2nd, 2013, 11:09 PM   #5901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
The Variante di Valico was already U/C when I visited Italy back in 2010. But knowing how Italy is, I don't expect it is much more advanced now.
While driving I saw some tunnels and viaducts that looked 99% ready paralel to the autostrada I was driving on. Unfortunately I don't have pictures of them because of the side guardrails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Unfortunately, it's all or nothing, so a delay on a little piece of work is going to affect the opening day of the whole autostrada.
This will be one of the largest motorway openings in one day in Italy.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 11:14 PM   #5902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
This will be one of the largest motorway openings in one day in Italy.
14 April 1973: 364 kilometers of A14 opens in one day (two stretches; 167 and 197 km).
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 11:38 PM   #5903
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Most tunnels are also complete, including the 8.5 km Valico tunnels and the 2.6 km Sparvo tunnels. Not sure about the Val di Sambro ones (3.8 km), where all the trouble with landslide is. 51% of the whole autostrada lies on tunnels
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 01:11 AM   #5904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
The speed limit is 100 km/h and there are many speed cameras:

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
That sign is actually wrong. That sign is reserved for "strada extraurbana principale" - primary extra-urban road", while FIPILI is "strada extraurbana secondaria".
Some precisations to foreigners:

In Italy "strada extraurbana principale" is the technical and legal name for expressway (superstrada). The speed limit is 110 unless otherwise posted (but no higher than 110). Only vehicles that are allowed on autostrade can drive here.

Strada extraurbana secondaria is just any road outside city limits that it's not a motorway or a strada extraurbana principale. The speed limit is 90 unless otherwise posted (but no higher than 90). All vehicles and pedestrians are allowed unless otherwise posted. However some expressways are classificated as strade extraurbane secondarie because of lower standards: for example the FI-PI-LI, the FI-SI, the A1-Perugia, the Padova ringroad, the old raccordo A4-Gorizia, part of the Sardinian Y,...

Are you sure you saw a 100 speed limit on the Fi-PI-LI? It would be very weird since the maximum allowed by law would be 90.

Before entering a strada extraurbana principale you should have this sign:


When you leave it:


If a strada extraurbana secondaria is restricted to non-motorized traffic you should have these signs:


So, the sign above in Florence is simply wrong because they used on a "strada extraurbana secondaria" a sign reserved to a "strada extraurbana principale". The integrative panel below with "strada extraurbana secondaria" doesn't exist in the highway code and it's wrong.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old September 3rd, 2013, 01:44 AM   #5905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
The Variante di Valico was already U/C when I visited Italy back in 2010. But knowing how Italy is, I don't expect it is much more advanced now.
Seeing as most of it is on a viaduct or in a tunnel in geologically adverse conditions and in an earthquake zone .....it is very advanced.

Bing maps aerial imagery shows most of the major structures are done. The imagery is from 2011
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 04:37 AM   #5906
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A scheme for Variante di Valico

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Old September 3rd, 2013, 04:41 AM   #5907
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Green = original alignment
Orange = widening
Grey = decommissioned (look at old and new roadway here http://goo.gl/maps/Wf5gg)
Yellow = new roadway
Red = connections with local road networks
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 09:32 AM   #5908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are you sure you saw a 100 speed limit on the Fi-PI-LI? It would be very weird since the maximum allowed by law would be 90.
You are right. The speed limit was 90 km/h. But the 'blue autostrada' signs where there... you saw them in the pictures.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 10:20 AM   #5909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
While driving I saw some tunnels and viaducts that looked 99% ready paralel to the autostrada I was driving on. Unfortunately I don't have pictures of them because of the side guardrails.
Completion percentages (updated 12.06.2013):

Casalecchio - Sasso Marconi (lot 0, 4.1 km) 100%
Sasso Marconi - La Quercia (lots 1,2,3,4, 19.4 km) 100%

these two stretches are already open since 2009 and 2007, respectively.

La Quercia - Badia Nuova (lot 5a, 7.6 km) 92.7%
La Quercia - Badia Nuova (lot 5b, 3.3 km) 74%
La Quercia - Badia Nuova (lots 6,7, 6.6 km) 69,2% (this is where Ripoli landslide is)
Badia Nuova - Aglio galleria di base (lots 9,10,11, 11.2 km) 94.5%
Badia Nuova - Aglio svincolo di Barberino (lot 12, 4.5 km) 100%
Aglio - Barberino (lot 13, 6.1 km) 95.8%

Total advancement: 86%
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 10:22 AM   #5910
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When is the expected opening date?
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 10:26 AM   #5911
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End 2015. I think they could open before this date, but probably Ripoli landslide suggests more caution.

EDIT: Autostrade per l'Italia plans on opening in 2014, but the contract with banks financing the works expires in 2015 (just in case )
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:38 AM   #5912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
You are right. The speed limit was 90 km/h. But the 'blue autostrada' signs where there... you saw them in the pictures.
These signs are probably old. Until 1992 there was no clear distinction between Autostrada, Strada extraurbana principale and Strada extraurbana secondaria.
So the SS280 (A3-Catanzaro), that is a strada extraurbana principale, has motorway signs:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Catan...00.87,,0,-3.02
Same the SS202 (Sopraelevata di Trieste)
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Tries...32.36,,0,-6.03
Tangenziale Est di Roma (Circonvallazione Salaria) (This isn't even an expressway, but a strada urbana di scorrimento - main urban artery)
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=roma&...56.71,,0,-1.46

Back to the FI-PI-LI, there were discussions in the past to classificate it as "strada extraurbana principale" and raise the speed limit to 110. But finally they didn't do it with the excuse of too many accidents there. I think they kept the 90 speed limit to earn more money with speed traps (who drives less than 90 on an empty freeway?)
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; September 3rd, 2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:47 AM   #5913
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The same works also for SS1 Aurelia (from Tarquinia towards north), SS148 Pontina and many others...
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:50 AM   #5914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
(who drives less than 90 on an empty freeway?)
Since I was fined on E45, I do
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:55 AM   #5915
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But Fi-Pi-Li si not an empty freeway. It has lots of traffic, but sometimes you can go faster. I drove all the time with about 95 km/h (on my dashboard, so less on the speed cameras).
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 11:59 AM   #5916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Tangenziale Est di Roma (Circonvallazione Salaria) (This isn't even an expressway, but a strada urbana di scorrimento - main urban artery)
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=roma&...56.71,,0,-1.46

Tangenziale Est is not a freeway or a Motorway. All the road is 2+2 lanes with emergency lane, but the speed limit is 70 (in some part is 50 or 40) and signs are white.

Those in green are completely misleading... They refers to the A24 stretch from Verano to the toll in Roma EST. But it's actually a motorway controlled by a private society called Strada dei Parchi S.p.A.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 12:14 PM   #5917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
But Fi-Pi-Li si not an empty freeway. It has lots of traffic, but sometimes you can go faster. I drove all the time with about 95 km/h (on my dashboard, so less on the speed cameras).
Maybe at night or outside rush hour isn't so busy so the 90 speed limit is nonsense. Also on a 4x2 lanes motorway sometimes you have to drive slow because of congestion but a permanent low speed limit doesn't make sense.
90 is the speed limit in many 1+1 roads with curves, intersections, driveways,... I don't see why a 2x2 grade-separated highway should have the same speed limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Since I was fined on E45, I do
I mean who would drive so slow unless for the fear of fines.
The E45-SSbis, although being a "strada extraurbana principale" has the 90 speed limit (in most of for its entire lenght, don't remember) probably because of bad pavement and sharp curves especially in the Verghereto section.

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Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
The same works also for SS1 Aurelia (from Tarquinia towards north), SS148 Pontina and many others...
The SS1 Tarquinia-Grosseto couldn't be classificate as "strada extraurbana principale" because it has private driveways.
The SS148 Roma-Latina is 2x2 fully grade-separated but few years ago was downgraded from s.e. principale (110) to s.e. secondaria (90) because of substandard design and high accident rate.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 12:23 PM   #5918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Since I was fined on E45, I do
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
But Fi-Pi-Li si not an empty freeway. It has lots of traffic, but sometimes you can go faster. I drove all the time with about 95 km/h (on my dashboard, so less on the speed cameras).
That's a good situation to have cruise control and set it to a speed and cruise .
I did it when the motorways in Bavaria were limited to 80 because of blow-up risk. Set it to 90 and achieved a great fuel consumption around 3L/100 in 6th gear. Still very boring to drive like that

In Germany I don't usually go more than 20 over the limit. On national roads when possible I drive on dashboard 115-120 (while limit is 100), maybe more when overtaking. On motorways I usually set +10..15, but on many occasions I also have to drive slower than the limit if congested, that's ok though, I prefer to go wit the flow on 60-80 limitations.

I will drive in Italy in a month in weekend trip to Venice. Was thinking to go +5..10 (dashboard) over the limit but not more. I did the same in Switzerland and it was ok.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 12:30 PM   #5919
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The SS148 Roma-Latina is 2x2 fully grade-separated but few years ago was downgraded from s.e. principale (110) to s.e. secondaria (90) because of substandard design and high accident rate.
Yes, I know, but instead of fixing the road, they lower the speed limit. It isn't a really fair behavior...
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 05:00 PM   #5920
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