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Old September 18th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #6001
g.spinoza
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Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
What about another place for a stop between Kufstein and Bolzano? With 2 planned stops the journey should not be that hard to make.
Chiusa/Klausen is a really nice town, but it's close to Bolzano/Bozen so maybe you want to stop farther.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #6002
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Folks,

Italy was country #7 on this year's road trip to Croatia and back. Here are some pics and observations.

1. First pic is at the eastern end of the A4 near Trieste -- the bit that's not actually called the A4 for some reason. Lots of trucks here, with number plates from all over Europe. Italian signage can't seem to decide if it wants arrows pointing up or down, but at least in this case there are two forward arrows, which matches the number of forward lanes (also 2).
image hosted on flickr

Prosecco exit, near Trieste, A4 by csd75, on Flickr

2. Further west now, near to Turin. This photo shows two of my pet hates about driving on Italian autostradas: 1) Note the car sitting in lane 2 even though lane 1 is clear. Italian car drivers seem to have an aversion to using lane 1, even when it's clear. Maybe this has something to do with 2) There are three forward lanes here, but the arrows (now pointing down) only show Torino reachable in the left-hand two lanes here. There is no lane drop, though the signage might suggest so if you're not used to this quirk. This happens all over the place, and I constantly found myself changing lanes in case I got stuck in an exit-only lane.
image hosted on flickr

IMG_2637 by csd75, on Flickr

3. Moving west again onto the A32 towards the Frejus Tunnel. This motorway has some stunning scenery. Note the typical clutter on the ADS, impossible to read everything at 130 km/h.
image hosted on flickr

IMG_2640 by csd75, on Flickr

4. One positive thing about the A32 is the introduction of exit numbers. This is the only Italian autostrada I've seen with this -- does anyone know if it is being extended across the rest of the network? As a non-local, I always find it easier to remember an exit number than an exit name, especially when it's in a foreign language.
image hosted on flickr

New exit numbering, A32 by csd75, on Flickr

Overall, driving it Italy is just as I remember it from before: inconsistent signage, bad drivers (though they seem to have slowed down a bit -- maybe because of the astronomical fuel costs), uneven road surfaces, and some great scenery! Oh, and the great food of course

/csd
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Last edited by csd; September 18th, 2013 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Left/right mixup
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Old September 18th, 2013, 07:51 PM   #6003
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From what I know, only some autostrade have numbered exits. They usually are bypasses or Ring road. For example, GRA in Rome has numbers, and also Bologna tangenziale. I guess that Milano's tangenziali have them as well.

I Agree with the fact that people don't drive in rightmost lane: some of them are afraid of it, and some others just feel ashamed to be there.

Little fact: the Alfa Romeo Giulietta just in front of you is brand-new! It's plate is ES, and a friend of mine just bought a car with ES as first letters.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 08:22 PM   #6004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csd View Post

2. Further west now, near to Turin. This photo shows two of my pet hates about driving on Italian autostradas: 1) Note the car sitting in lane 2 even though lane 1 is clear. Italian car drivers seem to have an aversion to using lane 1, even when it's clear. Maybe this has something to do with 2) There are three forward lanes here, but the arrows (now pointing down) only show Torino reachable in the right-hand two lanes here. There is no lane drop, though the signage might suggest so if you're not used to this quirk. This happens all over the place, and I constantly found myself changing lanes in case I got stuck in an exit-only lane.

/csd
I wonder why don't they stop this nonsense. If you don't know the road layout you end up driving the middle lane all the time just in case. I just don't understand, there are plenty of lane-consistent signage systems in the world...
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Old September 18th, 2013, 08:33 PM   #6005
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This happens all over the place, and I constantly found myself changing lanes in case I got stuck in an exit-only lane.
Exit-only lane are quite uncommon in Italy. As a rule of thumb, they only are found where a new autostrada begins from another (A14 from A1, A16 from A14, A22 from A1...) but of course people don't know that while driving. I've never been bothered much by the number of arrows not matching the number of lanes, but I can see how one can be confused. I do hate the inconsistencies, like arrow up-arrow down.

Quote:
4. One positive thing about the A32 is the introduction of exit numbers. This is the only Italian autostrada I've seen with this -- does anyone know if it is being extended across the rest of the network? As a non-local, I always find it easier to remember an exit number than an exit name, especially when it's in a foreign language.
Don't know about autostradas, but exit numbers are slowly being introduces in superstradas as well: SS76 for instance, or RA10.

Quote:
Overall, driving it Italy is just as I remember it from before: inconsistent signage, bad drivers (though they seem to have slowed down a bit -- maybe because of the astronomical fuel costs), uneven road surfaces, and some great scenery! Oh, and the great food of course
That's basically correct. In autostradas Italians have slowed down, but they've speeded up inside cities.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 11:01 PM   #6006
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Old September 18th, 2013, 11:39 PM   #6007
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Wow. Being a local I never paid much attention to this, but my take is:

Two arrows, not consistent with the number of exits : "the main stream of traffic to Milan goes ahead. Arrow up: Seriate exit approachimg"

Arrow down. "Seriate exit is HERE!"

Lane consistent arrows: only in case the road actually splits, rather than sporting the usual exit ramp.

Traffic is slowing down because of ubiquitous speed traps

Expressways often have numbered exits. Mainly because they have a helluva lot of exits. What you show is blue signage, so an expressway.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #6008
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Padova and Verona bypasses have numbered exits too.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 11:53 PM   #6009
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Padova and Verona bypasses have numbered exits too.
Bypasses are blue, unless you are driving an urban stretch of motorway, like the A4 in Milan.

In Bologna, for instance, you have the 3+3 motorway with hardly any exit and it runs between the two carriageways of the Bologna bypass, a 2+2 blue road with plenty of exits, all numbered afaik, the first set of numbered exits I've ever seen.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 12:27 AM   #6010
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Bypasses are blue, unless you are driving an urban stretch of motorway, like the A4 in Milan.

In Bologna, for instance, you have the 3+3 motorway with hardly any exit and it runs between the two carriageways of the Bologna bypass, a 2+2 blue road with plenty of exits, all numbered afaik, the first set of numbered exits I've ever seen.
Not all the Bypasses are in blue: Napoli tangenziale, A56, is officially a motorway. Same goes for GRA in Rome, A50/51/52 in Milan, A54 in pavia, A55 in Torino, A57 in Mestre.

RA1 in Bologna, known as Tangenziale, is a motorway. Actually, is classified as "rete stradale a viabilità ordinaria di interesse nazionale" (ordinary road of national interest), but you can clearly see the green sign of motorway entering/leaving that road: https://www.google.it/maps/preview?i...5!4f13.1&fid=5

Here too: https://www.google.it/maps/preview?i...5!4f13.1&fid=5

Another motorway with numbered exits is RA10 Torino-Caselle, BTW. And for example, in GRA, not all the exits are numbered: some of them are not, and some of them are called "2 bis" or "2 ter".
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Old September 19th, 2013, 12:49 AM   #6011
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RA category

What is the RA category exactly? The eastern end of the A4 becomes the RA13 (I think) -- but this is only shown on the KM posts, not direction signs.

/csd
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Old September 19th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #6012
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What is the RA category exactly? The eastern end of the A4 becomes the RA13 (I think) -- but this is only shown on the KM posts, not direction signs.

/csd
RA stands for "Raccordo Autostradale", that means "motorway belt/connection". It's usually a short branch of a Motorway, connecting two major areas.

There are many in Italy.


Actually, legally speaking, there is absolutely no differences between a RA and a A in our road code: they both are classified as "autostrada".

It is just a way to call them.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 02:01 AM   #6013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
RA stands for "Raccordo Autostradale", that means "motorway belt/connection". It's usually a short branch of a Motorway, connecting two major areas.

There are many in Italy.


Actually, legally speaking, there is absolutely no differences between a RA and a A in our road code: they both are classified as "autostrada".

It is just a way to call them.
Not all RA routes are motorways. Some are blue expressways.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:28 AM   #6014
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Originally Posted by WalkTheWorld View Post
Bologna bypass, a 2+2 blue road with plenty of exits, all numbered afaik, the first set of numbered exits I've ever seen.
Bologna bypass is green, not blue.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:41 AM   #6015
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post

Bologna bypass is green, not blue.
Mildew, probably.

Seriously? The outer lanes are green?
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:50 AM   #6016
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Yes, they are green:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=44.52996...280.1,,0,-2.22
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Old September 19th, 2013, 09:55 AM   #6017
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I stand corrected!
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:10 AM   #6018
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Not all RA routes are motorways. Some are blue expressways.
Oh, yes, right! I forgot Perugia-Bettolle that I'm sure is blue and actually I knew it was a RA.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 10:34 AM   #6019
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Oh, yes, right! I forgot Perugia-Bettolle that I'm sure is blue and actually I knew it was a RA.
And Florence - Siena too.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 12:31 PM   #6020
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Padova and Verona bypasses have numbered exits too.
Also Vicenza South bypass
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