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Old December 19th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #6521
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I remember that before they opened the Passante di Mestre there was a VMS (don't remember exactly where, I think near Dolo) that showed the number of days left to the opening.
There were some problems and the Passante was opened few months later the initial deadline. After the deadline, instead of switching off the VMS, they decided to continue operating it, signing with negative numbers ever day of delay (it was a sort of apologizing).
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Old December 20th, 2013, 10:39 AM   #6522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Keep in mind that A14 stretch Senigallia-Ancona Nord is horribly behind schedule, due to financial problems of its subcontractor.
It' not horribly late. I would not call 1 year horribly late
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Old December 20th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #6523
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Quote:
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It' not horribly late. I would not call 1 year horribly late
Considering that all other stretches were completed almost 1 year ahead of their schedules, it's like it's 2 years late
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Old December 21st, 2013, 12:21 AM   #6524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Considering that all other stretches were completed almost 1 year ahead of their schedules, it's like it's 2 years late
No. Some are 1 yearl early, 1 is 1 year late
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Old December 21st, 2013, 11:43 AM   #6525
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Exactly. Shifting frame of reference, it's 2 years late :-)
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Old December 21st, 2013, 12:49 PM   #6526
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A master contractor has been picked for A18 between Modica and Rosolini
Apparently we'll have to wait few months to know which contractor has been chosen. It seems there are some irregularities to be addressed.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 11:44 AM   #6527
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Expropriation procedures have been completed for the realization of Autostrada della Valtrompia, north of Brescia. Works, awarded to Ics Grandi Lavori SpA of Rome, are going to begin next July.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 11:59 AM   #6528
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Do you have more details about this new autostrada? I've never heard about this before.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 12:34 PM   #6529
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Do you have more details about this new autostrada? I've never heard about this before.
That's odd, since this is one of the longest-awaited and discussed roads in Northern Italy.

The autostrada is part of the new Brescia traffic improvemens, like A35 and A21 racc, but its original project is much older.

The motorway is supposed to relief SS345 delle Tre Valli in its most congested stretch (Brescia North-Gardone Val Trompia). I used to drive on this road every day when I worked as postman, and it's really packed and dangerous: imagine a 6-laned urban motorway with roundabouts and lots of at-grade accesses. It basically splits the towns it goes through (Sarezzo, Concesio, Villa Carcina) in two, and for a pedestrian crossing the street is almost impossible. The road carries 45 thousand vehicles per day, steady since at least 1993 (when it carried 42 thousand). Between 2006 and 2011 the 11 km between Concesio and Sarezzo saw 295 accidents with 424 injured and 11 deaths.

However, this road is going to be a full motorway, going from SP19 in Concesio to Sarezzo (the whole project extends to Lumezzane). Its major piece of engineering is a double bore 3.6 km tunnel.

A couple of years ago they were completing bureaucracy stuff for expropriation but let the terms expire, so they had to start anew and now they finally complete this path. So let's wait for works to actually start.

EDIT: A map not really clear though. The motorway shoud go from the red dot under Concesio to Lumezzane, on the big red circle:



Val Trompia valley is highly urbanized and industrialized, home of the world-famous Beretta firearms company.

Last edited by g.spinoza; December 22nd, 2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 02:18 PM   #6530
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Sure.

Italian priority should be re-starting the Messina Strait bridge. That is a project worth the cost, and one that is much in need!
Not this again
Why every now and then somebody restart talking about the Messina strait bridge? it WON'T HAPPEN (and I say, luckily). Italy is almost on the verge of bankaruptcy, we are not there but we are not far. Spending money on something like that is stupid, period.
And no, it's not worth the cost. Not with italian contractor's costs.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 03:21 PM   #6531
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And with so much problems we have with unemployement it will be worst with building that bridge and then close ferry service between Sicily and Calabria, IMO
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 03:52 PM   #6532
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yes, and trains took out of business horse carriages chauffeurs. So?
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 03:59 PM   #6533
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If the bridge is constructed under concession or as a PPP with tolls there will be no immediate impact on the government budget.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 04:51 PM   #6534
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And with so much problems we have with unemployement it will be worst with building that bridge and then close ferry service between Sicily and Calabria, IMO
Discussion about the bridge is warranted, claiming the 200 jobs or so that exist around the ferries is reason not to build it is unacceptable.

It would be the same as claiming Italy should outlaw ATMs so that banks have to hire thousands of clerks and the 60 million residents in Italy would then have to go to a manned counter during opening hours to withdraw cash. Or maybe someone could argue online commerce should be banned in Italy to save physical retail jobs (something that two minor political parties actually proposed in 2007).

A semi-related criticism is that bypasses and new highways would kill jobs because car drivers no longer would travel on congested village streets which make them stop for shopping.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 04:55 PM   #6535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
Not this again
Why every now and then somebody restart talking about the Messina strait bridge? it WON'T HAPPEN (and I say, luckily). Italy is almost on the verge of bankaruptcy, we are not there but we are not far. Spending money on something like that is stupid, period.
And no, it's not worth the cost. Not with italian contractor's costs.
The bridge will be built, sooner or later. It would be best to have it sooner.

When full modernization of rail link Salerno - V.S. Giovanni is 100% completed, there will be a renewed push for the bridge on the rail side as well.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 11:02 AM   #6536
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If the bridge is constructed under concession or as a PPP with tolls there will be no immediate impact on the government budget.
Alas, believe me, as an Italian guy, it's not easy to write this.
But what you say would work in a normal country, not here.
Project financing and private concessions don't work in italy, it's been proven.
There would always been the chain of fiefs and concessions from a contractor to a subcontractor, and from a subcontractor on, which would exponentially increase the costs (that's the typical reason why A3 is costing something like 35 Million Euros/km ). The so called "indotto", meaning the industry gravitating and depending around a certain task (e.g. the Messina strait bridge construction) has always a dramatic effect.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 04:23 PM   #6537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If the bridge is constructed under concession or as a PPP with tolls there will be no immediate impact on the government budget.
But for italian unemployed people it will have.
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 04:31 PM   #6538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken View Post
Alas, believe me, as an Italian guy, it's not easy to write this.
But what you say would work in a normal country, not here.
Project financing and private concessions don't work in italy, it's been proven.
There would always been the chain of fiefs and concessions from a contractor to a subcontractor, and from a subcontractor on, which would exponentially increase the costs (that's the typical reason why A3 is costing something like 35 Million Euros/km ). The so called "indotto", meaning the industry gravitating and depending around a certain task (e.g. the Messina strait bridge construction) has always a dramatic effect.

You're italian so i'll show you in italian language.

This is my post about the completing of "Variante di Cannitello (Reggio Calabria)" - propedeutic works to building the bridge - finished in 2012.
This post shows the people and which part of Italian region their come and worked on this 'Variante'.

Quote:
Ed ecco un grafico che mostra la provenienza degli operai che hanno lavorato alla variante ferroviaria di Cannitello:


Invece qui viene mostrato la provenienza per Regione dei 300 impiegati che hanno lavorato alla variante:



Ciò mostra come l'opera non abbia benefici prettamente '"locali" e per i territori interessati.... Del Ponte ne beneficerà l'intero Paese!!

(si parla di 40.000 operai tra diretto e indotto nella costruzione del Ponte! (e menomale che non è una priorità!))
from here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...1#post90521211



PS
sorry for my english
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 04:35 PM   #6539
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Highway A3 Napoli-Reggio Calabria : open to traffic a new stretch (5 km) has opened in the province of Potenza
23/12/2013

Pietro Ciucci: a further step towards the completion of works



www.stradeanas.it
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 05:08 PM   #6540
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linguistic question: why can we see at Italian motorways sign "corsia emergenza mancate", and not "corsie emergenze mancate" or "corsia emergenza manca(ta)"?
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