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Old January 2nd, 2014, 09:50 PM   #6621
italystf
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C1: lanes: 3,75m, shoulders: 1,50m, high traffic
C2: lanes: 3,50m, shoulders: 1,25m, low traffic

(I had to look at Wikipedia, I didn't even know it before.)
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 10:05 PM   #6622
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third photo is not Italian A24, but Croatian A6 (taken by my friend from Spain from my car 7 years ago )
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 10:11 PM   #6623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
third photo is not Italian A24, but Croatian A6 (taken by my friend from Spain from my car 7 years ago )

LOL you're right, Google said it was A24!

Quote:
So someone (I assume not g.spinoza) just calculated the higher-standard sections and published their lengths? How did he call it in Italian? What about the categories C1 (traffico sostenuto) and C2 (traffico limitato)? Does that have anything to do with it?
Except for what italystf said, that of course is right, I don't know any special name for such a road. Actually I'd call both "statale", or maybe"superstrada", even if it actually isn't it.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 10:24 PM   #6624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Tha ANAS website records all openings in the ANAS road network since 2008.
Virtually all new roads built by ANAS are urban bypasses or replacement routes for old road, so they are generally grade-separated, in contrapposition with old state routes that feature traffic lights, private accesses,...
Oh, I see now. Who builds lower-standard strade extraurbane secondarie?
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 10:32 PM   #6625
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Oh, I see now. Who builds lower-standard strade extraurbane secondarie?
It doesn't matter. Technical classification and administrative classification aren't related each other.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 11:06 PM   #6626
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It would be interesting though to make a map of all these 1+1 highways
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 11:11 PM   #6627
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I think the map would be full of them, especially in flatlands.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 11:15 PM   #6628
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I think the map would be full of them, especially in flatlands.
Hum... They are more common in the Apennines actually I think
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 01:33 AM   #6629
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There are plenty of these roads in southern regions. Calabria and Basilicata have several of them connecting A3 to the Ionian coast. SS682 is a particularly interesting drive, and 70% faster than any other nearby local road.

A like 1+1 expressways, they are pleasant to drive, speed limits don't drop in every single frazione and curves are often gentle. Another good one is SS18 (var) between Paestum and Policastro Bussentino

There are also some of these roads linking cities in the hinterland to A14 in Marche, Abruzzo and Molise.

While they are restricted to 90km/h, the overall driving experience is much, much better than regular rural roads.

These roads are crucial for mobility in those areas, as terrain is rather hilly and old roads are nothing more than circuitous paves lanes across farms and mountain slopes.

What I think they should do is to fit bollards on central lines, to prevent illegal overtaking. This is the only downside of these roads: since the lanes are generously wide and sometimes there is a narrow shoulder, aggressive drivers (but often motorbike riders) will try to "find a gap" to overtake you. Motorbikes are guilty as charged of this, they expect you will drive closer to the shoulder so that they can pass you on the left within your lane.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 02:53 AM   #6630
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Make an exaustive list of all 1+1 grade-separated roads is a very hard task, even more difficult than listing all 2+2 expressways.
Many roads are partly grade-separated and partly not.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:18 PM   #6631
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Few other ones

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.741981...2,228,,0,-1.17

https://maps.google.it/?ll=46.131032...342.89,,0,4.03

This one is a little bit different. SS 27 wich run from Aosta to Gran Sanbernardo tunnel.
It got 2 lanes in for cars which 'climb' the mountain, probably to allow the overtake of the trucks (the road is quite stepped and they have to go slow)

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.751026...,68.79,,0,5.67

closer to the tunnel the road becomes 1+1

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.808289...08.04,,0,-6.33

And look at this junction: https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.488291...16512&t=h&z=17

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.487915...,19.81,,0,0.52

Anyway many of these roads or stretches of 'em have been upgraded to 2+2 with full superstrada standards or they are going to upgrade 'em in tha future

For istance, close to Milan, SS 415 (aka Paullese), which upgrading from Milan to Crema is currently u/c, in the remaining branch from Crema to Cremona has an almost full predisposition to be widened in the future

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.347184...23.48,,0,-0.61

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.251318...49.44,,0,-0.37

https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.222262...135.61,,0,-5.3
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:27 PM   #6632
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A question.
How to classify a road 2+2 in different carriageways, with (few) grade crossings and even traffic lights?
I'm referring at SS 629 from Sesto Calende to Besozzo https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.758631...,2.25,,0,-0.14
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 05:29 PM   #6633
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Strada extraurbana secondaria, like anything else
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:33 PM   #6634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
A question.
How to classify a road 2+2 in different carriageways, with (few) grade crossings and even traffic lights?
I'm referring at SS 629 from Sesto Calende to Besozzo https://maps.google.it/?ll=45.758631...,2.25,,0,-0.14
Americans (MUTCD) would call it an expressway. There are also undivided 4-lane roads, but sometimes they have very low speed limits like the road between Lignano and italystf. That's a very boring drive.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:42 PM   #6635
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Americans (MUTCD) would call it an expressway
Yep, that's mainly a North American thing. The U.S. and Canada (also Mexico and Brazil) have tens of thousands of kilometers of rural divided or undivided 4-lane roads. This road type is far less common in Europe. It does exist, but by far not as much as in North America. Outside the Americas, an "expressway" is usually a controlled-access highway.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 08:28 PM   #6636
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Americans (MUTCD) would call it an expressway. There are also undivided 4-lane roads, but sometimes they have very low speed limits like the road between Lignano and italystf. That's a very boring drive.
4-lane undivided roads are fortunately rare in Italy, they're quite dangerous. Better to put concrete or steel barriers in the middle.

SS407 "Basentana" Potenza-Metaponto (Basilicata) is probably the longest.
https://maps.google.si/maps?q=metapo...64.87,,0,15.99

This is a short part of SS13 north of Udine.
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=Udine,...2,42.85,,0,7.4

Link A13 - Ferrara centre
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=Ferrar...338.89,,0,3.93

The SR354 to Lignano is really bad because there are many private driveways and in many places the median is dashed to turn left. I don't think I've ever seen something similar elsewhere in Italy.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 09:12 PM   #6637
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this is absolutely weird to see road like that in Italy, i had no idea about it. evet 2+1 roads are rather rare or weird there.
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Old January 3rd, 2014, 09:32 PM   #6638
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2+1 roads are used almost exclusively on steep slopes. Here's an example on SS16 Adriatica near Ancona:

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=ancona...74.02,,0,11.23
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Old January 4th, 2014, 12:21 AM   #6639
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this is absolutely weird to see road like that in Italy, i had no idea about it. evet 2+1 roads are rather rare or weird there.
RA17 was undivided before they added jersey concrete barriers.
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Old January 4th, 2014, 03:12 AM   #6640
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2+1 roads are used almost exclusively on steep slopes. Here's an example on SS16 Adriatica near Ancona:

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=ancona...74.02,,0,11.23
A similar example is Via Brigata Casale (Trieste), formerly part of the SS202 (main road to Istria), before the RA13 and the "sopraelevata" were built.
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=comune...235.01,,0,1.01

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RA17 was undivided before they added jersey concrete barriers.
Interesting, I never saw any pic of the old raccordo. This one is from 2006, the median was added somewhere in 2007 according to my memory.
The RA17 was acquired by Autovie Venete from ANAS in 2005.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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