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Old August 12th, 2014, 09:47 AM   #7301
Insulateshipper
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And this is S.S. 640 “di Porto Empedocle” viadotto Serra Cazzola 1,
Nice bridge, but i dont know if its 2+2 line... Can anybody confirm it?




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Old August 12th, 2014, 09:58 AM   #7302
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It is
http://online.stradeeautostrade.it/a...00014072914002

Total width 26.50 m. Each carriageway 10.50 m, composed by two lanes (3.75 m each), two shoulders (1.75 m and 1.25 m) and one sidewalk (1.50 m), plus central divider (2.50 m).
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Old August 12th, 2014, 07:43 PM   #7303
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...whether there is a plan to expand road Bergamo - Como ? thanks
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Old August 13th, 2014, 01:58 AM   #7304
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It would be this (in Italian)
http://www.pedemontana.com/progetto_definitivo.php
But it's a mess, for now the parts that have been built, from A8 Cassano Magnago to A9, first lot of tangenziale Varese and Como are close to being complete, the motorway should then continue from the A9, south of Como to A4 to the west of Bergamo. If remains to be seen if and when!
Besides, I expect the same kind of tolls that have been applied to BreBeMi, here as well, which means that people like myself who live in the area will choose to get up earlier and join the queues.
There is no freaking way I would accept to pay a toll to travel on the new stretch of tangenziale Varese even though I live just 2km away from it!
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Old August 13th, 2014, 10:32 AM   #7305
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I thought the idea was to implement electronic tolling on Pedemontana?
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Old August 13th, 2014, 11:39 AM   #7306
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Quote:
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I thought the idea was to implement electronic tolling on Pedemontana?
This is still the idea, but it's not been implemented yet.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 12:27 PM   #7307
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A pity. Electronic tolling is cheaper for the operator (which could be reflected in the toll rates) and much better for traffic (free-flow), not to mention better for the environment (no stop-and-go, no land-consuming toll plazas).
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Old August 13th, 2014, 03:19 PM   #7308
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To save money on operators we can adopt "stazioni ad elevata automazione" (highly-automatized toll booths), where there are no operators but you can pay with cash or card in an fully automatic unmanned toll gate. They don't require people to buy devices like Telepass but still force all vehicles to stop.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 03:47 PM   #7309
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A typical toll gate where you have to stop can process 200 - 300 vehicles per hour.

So if you have a loaded motorway with 2 lanes each way, you need 15 - 20 toll gates each way as well to retain capacity. It's (number of lanes * 10)= amount of toll gates.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #7310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A typical toll gate where you have to stop can process 200 - 300 vehicles per hour.

So if you have a loaded motorway with 2 lanes each way, you need 15 - 20 toll gates each way as well to retain capacity. It's (number of lanes * 10)= amount of toll gates.
But a significant part of Italian fleet on motorways is fit with Telepass...

Problems are often evident, though, around major holidays, when you have many occasional highway drivers that don't have automatic payment systems and create queues at toll plazas (traffic increases, and the proportion of manual payment cars increases even more, leading to major traffic jams sometimes).
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Old August 13th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #7311
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Real open road tolling / all-electronic tolls features no 'gates', just a gantry across the road where you can drive at the speed limit (130 km/h in Italy).

These systems are much more developed in North America, Europe is really lagging in this aspect. Of course there is the political ramification when the 5% foreign vehicles don't all get billed.

Another point in Europe are the high operational cost of the electronic truck tolls, which are mostly in the 20-25% range in Europe. In the U.S., the operational cost of AET is only 3% for the NTTA network around Dallas. I think the high operational cost of such tolling systems in Europe is holding politicians and concessionairs back to implement AET. So far it only exists in Portugal, Norway and Belarus.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #7312
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Mwoa
Thing with Italy is that they build their toll plazas in areas subject to congestion anyway. Milan is the worst for that, whereas in France they only toll their roads far away from metropolitan areas where there are no high volumes of traffic.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:11 PM   #7313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Real open road tolling / all-electronic tolls features no 'gates', just a gantry across the road where you can drive at the speed limit (130 km/h in Italy).

These systems are much more developed in North America, Europe is really lagging in this aspect. Of course there is the political ramification when the 5% foreign vehicles don't all get billed.

Another point in Europe are the high operational cost of the electronic truck tolls, which are mostly in the 20-25% range in Europe. In the U.S., the operational cost of AET is only 3% for the NTTA network around Dallas. I think the high operational cost of such tolling systems in Europe is holding politicians and concessionairs back to implement AET. So far it only exists in Portugal, Norway and Belarus.
In Europe this system is more difficult to implement because of the big variety of foreign, old, special, diplomatic, temporary, etc... plates, that may be difficult to recognize by an OCR device. Also the efforts and costs needed to locate the owner in another country, mail the bill abroad and receive the payment from abroad have to be taken into consideration. This is one of the main reason for what many countries (with the notable exception of Switzerland) don't send traffic fines abroad.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:13 PM   #7314
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American license plates are much more difficult to read due to their design than European plates. ANPR works with speeds in excess of 300 km/h.

The main issue is 1) billing foreigners and 2) getting those bills actually paid.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:30 PM   #7315
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Quote:
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American license plates are much more difficult to read due to their design than European plates. ANPR works with speeds in excess of 300 km/h.

The main issue is 1) billing foreigners and 2) getting those bills actually paid.
I've heard that Switzerland ban the entry of foreign vehicles with unpaid traffic bills. However it's almost impossible to implement that in a Schengen country (CH is in Schengen but has still custom agents at its border crossings).
My father got a parking ticket in London back in the 1980s, he never paid it because even the traffic auxyliary told him that they wouldn't mail it to Italy. In the telematic era is easier to track owners of foreign vehicles (especially within the EU, where there is some coordination between national polices), but they would do that probably for a crime investigation, not to charge a 2€ toll.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:34 PM   #7316
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Actually, nearly all EU countries are exchanging registration details now, and monies owed are pursued by depth collectors in the particular countries where vehicles are registered. I got one from Germany last month. Fine was 10€...
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:50 PM   #7317
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The British company Euro Parking Collections pursues (parking) fine and toll collection throughout Europe. For example the Norwegian toll road bills are send to you via EPC.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:54 PM   #7318
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But there is no registration exchange available between the UK and the rest of the EU when it comes to minor traffic offences.
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Old August 14th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #7319
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Quote:
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Mwoa
Thing with Italy is that they build their toll plazas in areas subject to congestion anyway. Milan is the worst for that, whereas in France they only toll their roads far away from metropolitan areas where there are no high volumes of traffic.
This is not true. France is worth than Italy. I remember a lot of toll in south france direction montpellier. it was really borring...

Only in Milan they are a lot of toll, but then you can go for exemple to Taranto free of toll. No toll in Bologna, Pescara, Bari...
In Milan they are a lot of exit directly in the middle of cyti's, so if in each exit you put a toll barrier it will cause a lot of plug for nothing. That's why they decide to put free exit without toll, but more toll on the motorway...
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Old August 14th, 2014, 12:16 PM   #7320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
This is not true. France is worth than Italy. I remember a lot of toll in south france direction montpellier. it was really borring...

Only in Milan they are a lot of toll, but then you can go for exemple to Taranto free of toll. No toll in Bologna, Pescara, Bari...
In Milan they are a lot of exit directly in the middle of cyti's, so if in each exit you put a toll barrier it will cause a lot of plug for nothing. That's why they decide to put free exit without toll, but more toll on the motorway...
in France at A8 there are lots of open tolls because of different concessionaires directing different stretches of that motorway. and they are not interoperable as in Italy (for instance A22 and A4 work with the same ticket)
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