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Old January 9th, 2015, 02:00 PM   #7881
friedrichstrasse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Hard shoulders are narrower than usual.
Many motorways in Sicily and southern Italy are designed like this, due to the lower traffic.
Also note that those motorways are free, without any toll, and therefore can be defined as simple freeways.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 03:01 PM   #7882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
Many motorways in Sicily and southern Italy are designed like this, due to the lower traffic.
Also note that those motorways are free, without any toll, and therefore can be defined as simple freeways.
It's not a valid argument. According to Italian law, an autostrada (A-class road) must be designed with some minimum requirements (minimum width 25m, design speed 140kph, a certain maximum gradient and a certain minimum curve radius, I don't know technical details), regardeless the traffic volume and the toll.
There is no such thing as freeway in Italian highway code, just autostrada or strada extraurbana principale.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 03:30 PM   #7883
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The say the truth, in Italy an autostrada is such when is signposted as such. Many motorways do not meet the minimum criteria, but they're still considered autostrada.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 03:46 PM   #7884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
Many motorways in Sicily and southern Italy are designed like this, due to the lower traffic.
Also note that those motorways are free, without any toll, and therefore can be defined as simple freeways.
It was opened in 1975, maybe there were different costruction standard.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 03:54 PM   #7885
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SS 624 - Palermo-Sciacca, Sicily





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Old January 9th, 2015, 05:09 PM   #7886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
The say the truth, in Italy an autostrada is such when is signposted as such. Many motorways do not meet the minimum criteria, but they're still considered autostrada.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
It was opened in 1975, maybe there were different costruction standard.
Because criteria became stricter after those motorways were built and classified as motorways. New standards apply only to new motorways and don't act retroactively. But there's no such thing as different construction criteria according to traffic volume (except the number of lanes) and tolls.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 06:53 PM   #7887
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Criteria were written in 2001 (you can find them here: http://host.uniroma3.it/docenti/bene...EOMETRICHE.pdf ). All road designed before that, do not have to meet those criteria.

Moreover, they are "indicazioni di buona costruzione", not strict laws. They can be derogated.
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Old January 9th, 2015, 08:45 PM   #7888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
SS 624 - Palermo-Sciacca, Sicily





by Stefano on Flickr
Just driving on that road is a great expirience
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Old January 9th, 2015, 10:18 PM   #7889
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Partly underground roundabout with no visibility, for an oversized interchange in Sicily. The cut&cover tunnel itself seems useless. Then, south of the roundabout, the two carriageway swap each other, but this is maybe because one is older and the second was built on a straighter alignment.

==> http://goo.gl/maps/HcC1c
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Old January 10th, 2015, 04:53 AM   #7890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Not really, this one is true indeed.

Many international NGOs, European Commission, US Department of State, Transparency International, WEF, RiskAdvisory, Business Anti-Corruption Portal, EUObserver, FT, etc. show exactly the same conclusion > Italy is the most corrupted country in all EU/AELE-EFTA (actually equally corrupted as Greece, Romania and Bulgaria) .

Furthermore, corruption in Italy particularly affects procurement process, mainly in water, roads and railway projects. It is one of the main problems for doing business in Italy. Particularly when you consider that "political parties are ranked as the most corrupt institution in Italy, closely followed by public officials and Parliament" as the integrity of public officials is marred by their relationships with organized crime, Mafias and businesses .
/URL]
I am always really impressed at Italy because of how corrupt it is, but also how it is a prosperous country where people generally live very well. Like example, corruption in road making. But - road network is good. With so much wealth stolen and not created because of corruption one would think the standard of living to be like Congo but instead it is like 90% Switzerland. Unless all the mafiosi in other countries send "franchise fees" back to Italy and they get such subsidy, rather like EU cohesion funds for new entrants
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Old January 10th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #7891
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I am always really impressed at Italy because of how corrupt it is, but also how it is a prosperous country where people generally live very well.
When I was working at the university as a PhD student, I remember this one time when a foreign visiting committee came to assess the productivity of our department.
I remember one of them saying: "we are stunned by the very low quality of your facilities, but at the same time by the very high quality of your research: how do you manage to do that?"

Italians can make the best out of the worst. And vice versa, I guess.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 12:06 PM   #7892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Because criteria became stricter after those motorways were built and classified as motorways. New standards apply only to new motorways and don't act retroactively.
It was what i meant.


________________________________________________________________


Back to pictures..

Bronte (CT), Sicily

new strecht of SS 284 'Occidentale Etnea'




http://www.bronte118.it
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Old January 10th, 2015, 12:10 PM   #7893
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Highway A18 Messina-Catania, Sicily - Italy

near Taormina (ME)




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by otmar54 on Flickr
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Old January 10th, 2015, 02:41 PM   #7894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
When I was working at the university as a PhD student, I remember this one time when a foreign visiting committee came to assess the productivity of our department.
I remember one of them saying: "we are stunned by the very low quality of your facilities, but at the same time by the very high quality of your research: how do you manage to do that?"

Italians can make the best out of the worst. And vice versa, I guess.
It's exactly like that! Many people who complain about the "brain drain" issue think that the Italian education system is really crap. Instead, our unversities are quite good, the problem is that we have less job opportunities for young qualified people, compared to other deveoped countries. If our universities were really bad, there weren't so many Italian graduated having successful careers abroad.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 03:01 PM   #7895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
I am always really impressed at Italy because of how corrupt it is, but also how it is a prosperous country where people generally live very well. Like example, corruption in road making. But - road network is good. With so much wealth stolen and not created because of corruption one would think the standard of living to be like Congo but instead it is like 90% Switzerland. Unless all the mafiosi in other countries send "franchise fees" back to Italy and they get such subsidy, rather like EU cohesion funds for new entrants
OMG! those stereotypes!

Can I ask what 's your country?
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Old January 10th, 2015, 04:50 PM   #7896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
road network is good.
Nonetheless, autostradas are bloodily expensive, per example: take the A5 from Aosta to Torino (90 km of tolled motorway) roundtrip, and you already got your Swiss motorway vignette (valid for 14 months)!
Also, gasoline and diesel is more expensive too, by 15 to 35%.

Moreover, you can at least expect a good highway for this price with a good roadway quality, but it's often not the case: many tolled motorways do not have proper hard shoulders (if they have them at all!), are narrow, do have very short entry/exit (very dangerous!) even for service stations, almost like a Reichsautobahn of the 1930's .

In fact, last time I was in Northern Italy, I found a marked deterioration of pavements quality (on motorways, as well as SS, SR, and main roads). Is it because of maintenance savings due to the crisis?.
Further, the A6 Torino-Savona has lots of potholes, and the second lane is closed on some portions because of it .
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Old January 10th, 2015, 05:01 PM   #7897
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The A5 tolls are a bit of an outlier, the average toll in Italy is lower, around € 0.07 per km. It's usually more expensive in France or Spain.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #7898
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Well, it's not the case for the route I often take Aosta-Liguria. It costs me nearly 60€ for ~300 km of tolled motorway, which makes that each kilometer of motorway is ~0,2€ .

As a matter of fact, prices of some Italian autostradas took a dive up recently.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 07:23 PM   #7899
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I just found the news about bad bridges on Sicily :http://www.b92.net/biz/vesti/svet.ph...&nav_id=943837
In Serbian news
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Old January 10th, 2015, 11:39 PM   #7900
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is the fair stereotypes today?
Have you ever traveled on the A8 in France? Obviously the French is never spoken bad, only the Italians!
OMG


Italian/French Highways, i think the France Highway is very bad in all!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts0QAVw1mqo
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