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Old January 12th, 2015, 03:20 PM   #7921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
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Do I see correctly that old Favazzina viaducts are being slowly demolished?
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Old January 12th, 2015, 09:19 PM   #7922
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Most or all of the dismissed viaducts and seedings are to be demolished/renatured, as far as I know. And it's good so, apart from the consideration that a different use could have been possible/augurable.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 09:23 PM   #7923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedrichstrasse View Post
Yes, for the Salerno-Reggio it was.
For other roads (ex. Palermo-Trapani) it was a good choice.
Than these roads should not have been classified as "autostrade" and without hard shoulder lower speed limits shall apply.
If there is traffic to justify an "autostrada" it has to be build as one, if the traffic is lower, then build something else.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 10:59 PM   #7924
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A58 motorway (outer eastern Milan bypass) is now almost complete, except the bridge over Lambro river. It should open in late May.
http://www.ilcittadino.it/p/notizie/..._tassello.html
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 11:16 PM   #7925
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Aparently, the first (very short) stretch of the "Pedemontana Veneta" expressway (that will be completed in 2017), will open by the end of this year. It stretches from A31 to Breganze (not clear if Breganze est or Breganze ovest).

http://www.ilgiornaledivicenza.it/st...o_mini-tratto/
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 12th, 2015, 11:21 PM   #7926
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That's unexpected. Very little information about this road come up on the media, I thought it would lag behind and be delayed.
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Old January 12th, 2015, 11:24 PM   #7927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Pedemontana Veneta: Montecchio Maggiore (A4) – Thiene (A31) 23km (October 2014 to 2017) – project – map
Pedemontana Veneta: Thiene (A31) – Breganze 5.7km (November 2011 to 2017) – project – map
Pedemontana Veneta: Breganze – Marostica 9km (October 2014 to 2017) – project – map
Pedemontana Veneta: Marostica – Rosa (SS47) 8.5km (February 2013 to 2017) – project – map
Pedemontana Veneta: Rosa (SS47) – Mussolente/Loria 5km (October 2014 to 2017) – project – map
It's plausible, though, since works in this section started already in 2011. Since it's 5,7km, I think that the section that will open is A31 - Breganze ovest.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 13th, 2015, 12:17 AM   #7928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
Than these roads should not have been classified as "autostrade" and without hard shoulder lower speed limits shall apply.
If there is traffic to justify an "autostrada" it has to be build as one, if the traffic is lower, then build something else.
A29 Palermo-Mazara del Vallo/Trapani was build as an 'autostrada' but for other reasons.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 12:30 AM   #7929
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Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
A29 Palermo-Mazara del Vallo/Trapani was build as an 'autostrada' but for other reasons.
It's not clear what this sentence does mean.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 12:32 AM   #7930
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Highway A18 Siracusa-Gela

New lots 'Rosolini-Ispica/Pozzallo' under costruction


Works going on but slowly.

















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Old January 13th, 2015, 12:37 AM   #7931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It's not clear what this sentence does mean.
The A29 was built to raise the economy of 'Valle del Belice' (province of Trapani) after the earthquake of 1968; it should has been a simbol of rebirth of that part of region.
And it was built following the costruction criteria of that time.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 02:26 AM   #7932
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A3 would not have been built as a full highway back in the day if that was the condition for its construction, period.

It is already a miracle it was built as it was (before the renovation/upgrade started in 2004).

It could have ended up as a coastal highway. There were actually people back in the day that wanted it on the coast. Others wanted two highways in Calabria, one on each coast (Tyrrhenian and Ionian). A compromise was made, as to benefit all provinces of Calabria and not favor one coastal area over the other, and they built A3 + several short links to the coasts. Now they are very slowly upgrading SS106 to expressway standards (still better than old A3) and obviously A3 is becoming a World-class highway. So in the end Calabria will get very decent highway infrastructure.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 02:16 PM   #7933
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A very common misconception in Italy is that A3 has been U/C since the 1970s and it had never been completed.
In reality, construction took only 8 years, between 1964 and 1972. However, A3 was built as a substandard dual-carriaggeway, with steep slopes, short-radius curves and no hard shoulders (look at the SS3bis\E45 today). In those years this infrastructure was though to be adequate, since it crossed one of the poorest, least industrialized and most sparsely populated areas of Italy.
I think it would have been cheaper to build the highway along the Tyrrenian coast, with a spur to Cosenza.
Already in the late 1980s, with the increase of traffic, this highway appeared to be substandard and also the EU pushed for an upgrade. Reconstruction works started in 2004 and hopefully they will be completed by the end of this decade.
Those works were delayed and their costs were inflated due to corruption and mafia involvement, with some companies that got their contracts cancelled after being found guilty. Moreover, the long 1+1 sections due to roadworks create long traffic jams especially in summer (now less than few years ago), causing a lot of public outcry and complaints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
The A29 was built to raise the economy of 'Valle del Belice' (province of Trapani) after the earthquake of 1968; it should has been a simbol of rebirth of that part of region.
And it was built following the costruction criteria of that time.
If it wasn't for the earthquake, they wouldn't have built a motorway to Western Sicily? Aren't Trapani, Marsala and Mazara del Vallo large enough to justify a fast connection to the rest of the world?
Anyway, it's known that some weird curves of A29 were built to avoid exproprating land from mafiosi.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Last edited by italystf; January 13th, 2015 at 02:22 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 02:28 PM   #7934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
If it wasn't for the earthquake, they wouldn't have built a motorway to Western Sicily? Aren't Trapani, Marsala and Mazara del Vallo large enough to justify a fast connection to the rest of the world?
Anyway, it's known that some weird curves of A29 were built to avoid exproprating land from mafiosi.
As well as A3 and A19, the criteria were different in 1971 (when the works started).
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Old January 13th, 2015, 04:23 PM   #7935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Anyway, it's known that some weird curves of A29 were built to avoid exproprating land from mafiosi.
Also, one of the most spectacular assassination took place on A29:
When mafia committed a successful attack on this motorway against anti-mafia judge Giovanni Falconne on May 23rd, 1992.

They placed 500 kilos of remotely controlled explosives on a pedestrian underpass. Which they detonated when the car of the judge passed over it.
At the time, Judge Falconi was one of the most protected person in the world, he was even more protected than the President and Prime Minister of Italy. He was always escorted by sercret services with armored vehicules, and there were several convoys and flights going in different directions, in order to avoid knowing where he was.

The convoy was going from Punta Raisi airport to Palermo. When the First armored escort car passed over the bombs, it was literaly thrown away over hundred meters from the motorway in a garden of olives trees. The next armored car was the one of the judge: it was projected on a concrete wall and hit by heavy high-speed debris. Neither Falconi, nor his wife were wearing seat belts, they died instantly.

This event is known in Italy as the "Strage di Capaci" (Capaci massacre).

The bomb attack took place near the town of Capaci:


The mafia has literally blow up the motorway:


The first armored car of the escort, barely recognizable:


The armored car of judge Falcone:




Judge Falcone and his wife (first from the left):


Other cars were hit and destroyed too, as buildings near the motorway that were damaged due to the power of the explosion:








The A29 autostrada, barely looks like such:


The pedestrian underpass were the bombs were placed:


Scenario (in Italian):


Today, there is a memorial on this site:


Useful links (in Italian): http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strage_di_Capaci

http://www.giornalettismo.com/archiv...-di-capaci-15/
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Last edited by John Maynard; January 13th, 2015 at 04:48 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 05:14 PM   #7936
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Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
Than these roads should not have been classified as "autostrade" and without hard shoulder lower speed limits shall apply.
If there is traffic to justify an "autostrada" it has to be build as one, if the traffic is lower, then build something else.
But in fact, they have built something else

Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84
And it was built following the costruction criteria of that time.
No.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 06:17 PM   #7937
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Nonetheless, autostradas are bloodily expensive, per example: take the A5 from Aosta to Torino (90 km of tolled motorway) roundtrip, and you already got your Swiss motorway vignette (valid for 14 months)!
Also, gasoline and diesel is more expensive too, by 15 to 35%.

Moreover, you can at least expect a good highway for this price with a good roadway quality, but it's often not the case: many tolled motorways do not have proper hard shoulders (if they have them at all!), are narrow, do have very short entry/exit (very dangerous!) even for service stations, almost like a Reichsautobahn of the 1930's .

In fact, last time I was in Northern Italy, I found a marked deterioration of pavements quality (on motorways, as well as SS, SR, and main roads). Is it because of maintenance savings due to the crisis?.
Further, the A6 Torino-Savona has lots of potholes, and the second lane is closed on some portions because of it .
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Well, it's not the case for the route I often take Aosta-Liguria. It costs me nearly 60€ for ~300 km of tolled motorway, which makes that each kilometer of motorway is ~0,2€ .

As a matter of fact, prices of some Italian autostradas took a dive up recently.
The "extra-cost" depends of it :

"...Da Aosta Ovest a Courmayeur viaggiando in auto o moto il pedaggio è pari a € 5,50 e da Courmayeur ad Aosta Ovest viaggiando in camper a 2 assi il pedaggio è pari a € 7,30.
Il calcolo del pedaggio, secondo il criterio precedentemente richiamato, si applica sulla rete autostradale con sistema "chiuso", ovvero quando il Cliente ritira un biglietto in entrata e lo consegna in uscita, pagando il pedaggio corrispondente al percorso effettuato. Nelle autostrade con sistema “aperto”, come è il caso della tratta della R.A.V., non essendo previsto il ritiro del biglietto in entrata, il pedaggio viene calcolato sulla base di una percorrenza predeterminata convenzionale; in questo caso il Cliente, ad ogni transito presso un casello autostradale, paga un importo forfettario. La R.A.V., al fine di favorire l'utilizzo dell'autostrada per coloro che la percorrono solo in parte con entrate/uscite agli svincoli intermedi del sistema aperto, dal 2000, in accordo con la Regione Valle d'Aosta e previa approvazione dell'ANAS, riconosce in fattura ai Clienti muniti di apparato Telepass una riduzione del pedaggio commisurata al tragitto realmente effettuato, pari a circa il 90% per lo svincolo di Aosta Ovest e di circa il 40% per lo svincolo di Morgex."

(asking someone for translation)
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Old January 13th, 2015, 06:21 PM   #7938
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That is right only for the stretch of A5 past Aosta, though. All the way from Turin to Aosta is still a closed system with no discount for telepass users.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 06:32 PM   #7939
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Some viaducts of A29 are already in disastrous conditions after 30 years:
Video from 2009

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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 13th, 2015, 06:42 PM   #7940
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Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
That is right only for the stretch of A5 past Aosta, though. All the way from Turin to Aosta is still a closed system with no discount for telepass users.
Yes (take a look to the last few words )
The "over-priced toll" is for the strecth Morgex-Aosta.

If you Pass "barriera di Aosta" directed to Monte Bianco, you'll pay for all the lenght starting from the "barriera" to Parking lot of Monte Bianco, also you want to exit to Aosta Ovest or Morgex.

But if you have "telepass" , they automatically cut this costs:
Svincolo Aosta Ovest : - 4,90
Svincolo di Morgex : - 2,00
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