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Old March 31st, 2015, 01:24 PM   #8141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Yes, but some parts will still require several years because they aren't U/C yet.
Yes, i know. I meant that with 'the rest'
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Old March 31st, 2015, 01:38 PM   #8142
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Clearly much cheaper than building it

I don't know what the costs are, but my guess would be that the more expensive part is not the implosion itself but the removal of the resulting rubble and renaturing of the area.
Anyway I was wondering what the destiny of the old tunnels will be.

I don't thik they're gonna demolish (how?) or fill 'em.
I think dozens of abandoned tunnels will remain to 'witness' the old track
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Old March 31st, 2015, 05:02 PM   #8143
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Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Anyway I was wondering what the destiny of the old tunnels will be.

I don't thik they're gonna demolish (how?) or fill 'em.
I think dozens of abandoned tunnels will remain to 'witness' the old track
I doubt they will fill them entirely, it will be a huge and needless waste of money. Maybe they will only fill the entrances or even leave them open and adventurous people in the future will explore them like they do today with Roman catacumbs or WWI trenches.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 05:12 PM   #8144
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Long sections of motorway completely abandoned are a real rarity in the world. Parts of Italian A1 south of Bologna have been bypassed too (with reconstruction works completed in 2006), but they are short and partly reconverted as local roads.
The only example that I know around the world is the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Opened in 1940, it was one of the first modern motorway\freeway in the world and in 1968 a 21-km-long section (that included some tunnels) was abandoned and replaced by a more straight alignment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandon...vania_Turnpike
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 05:15 PM   #8145
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Most likely scenario is that they put gates on the entrances, and leave if there, only to have people breaching in after some years to "explore" the ruins. But without the viaducts to give access, most tunnels are rather inaccessible.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 07:22 PM   #8146
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Those tunnels might be a paradise for bats.
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Old March 31st, 2015, 11:54 PM   #8147
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It is also important that old tunnels are geologically stable on longterm. Are they?
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Old April 1st, 2015, 12:23 AM   #8148
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There are various examples of tunnels collapsed because of lack of maintenance after the closure of the infrastructure they carried.

They can even suddenly generate holes in the surface, if they are shallow like this one: http://www.tunnels-ferroviaires.org/tu57/57658.1.pdf

(the whole site is interesting for tunnel fans)
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Old April 1st, 2015, 12:28 AM   #8149
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Here you can see a section of Italian A1 abandoned since 2006:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Sas...b2eb768bc563f6

Part of the old A1 is still open as "raccordo autostradale" (spur highway) between SS64 and the new (post-2006) A1:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Sas...b2eb768bc563f6

Another part of it is open as 1+1 road, while the other carriaggeway is abandoned:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Sas...b2eb768bc563f6
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old April 1st, 2015, 08:28 AM   #8150
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There are still old A1 signs at the abandoned section
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Old April 1st, 2015, 10:19 PM   #8151
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Apaprently you can't continue straight in one direction here - why?

https://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Monzun...talia&t=k&z=18

Also, are there plans to reuse the old alignment? Why they opted for a new 3+3 motorway rather than a single new 3 lane carriageway, using the existing ones one-way (like they did in Tuscany)?
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Old April 1st, 2015, 11:19 PM   #8152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Why they opted for a new 3+3 motorway rather than a single new 3 lane carriageway, using the existing ones one-way (like they did in Tuscany)?
I would presume that old alignment is too curvy for today standards. Also they tried to avoid various settlements as old alignment goes often directly through them. And old objects and tunnels would still need to be demolished and built new to accomodate 3+1 lanes.
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Old April 3rd, 2015, 07:57 PM   #8153
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
link is broken
Link is fixed.
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Old April 5th, 2015, 03:40 PM   #8154
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dismissed highway tunnels?
Check what they came up with in Trento.

http://www.legallerie.tn.it/







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Old April 5th, 2015, 11:37 PM   #8155
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Location of the tunnel here (Google Street View)
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Old April 7th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #8156
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Nice. I didn't know that.

Anyway those are dismissed urban tunnels. Their reuse is easier and economically sustainable.

Dismissed tunnels on Salerno-Reggio Calabria are in natural areas, often in hard to reach places
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Old April 7th, 2015, 06:22 PM   #8157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Nice. I didn't know that.

Anyway those are dismissed urban tunnels. Their reuse is easier and economically sustainable.

Dismissed tunnels on Salerno-Reggio Calabria are in natural areas, often in hard to reach places
I didn't know it before either. Aparently, SS12 through Trento has been rerouted and upgraded to expressway standards in 2007, leaving those tunnels unused.
Interesing the use of the word "galleria", that in Italian has a double meaning: gallery (art, photo,... g.) or tunnel (road, rail,... t.).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old April 8th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #8158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verreme View Post
The last time I was in Italy (2013) I drove in some Tutor-monitored autostrade and I noticed many drivers were still speeding. Is the system on 24/7?
the "survey system" is working 24/7, but doesn't mean that it process the violation 24/7.
The system can record all the passages, but it's "Polizia stradale" obligation to proceeds and validate the record; than you'll get a fine.

So, Tutor is basically a deterrent
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Old April 9th, 2015, 02:31 PM   #8159
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SS145 between Vico Equense and Catellammare di Stabia



that road has been mostly bypassed by a new tunnel recently opened.

PS: I'm not the driver, forumer Stabia is (driver/uploader)
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Last edited by Suburbanist; April 9th, 2015 at 06:16 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2015, 05:39 PM   #8160
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Thank you for posting the video, but I really hope you are not the driver... overtaking inside a tunnel with a double solid line (2:20)
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