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Old April 16th, 2015, 10:21 AM   #8201
Insulateshipper
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Again, and I'm sorry to say that but the fact every week show it, south Italy demonstrate his no capacity to do anything correctly. It's unbelievable!
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:43 AM   #8202
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Again, and I'm sorry to say that but the fact every week show it, south Italy demonstrate his no capacity to do anything correctly. It's unbelievable!
Please, spare the "South Italy" thing.

These highways were built by the central government/ANAS, under national tender laws, whose awardees have/had a national presence, since you cannot build such a complex road with a local construction firm capabilities only, obviously.

The thing that makes difference is whether a highway is under concession or directly managed by a public entity (I put (ex)-CAS highways on the latter category)
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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:26 PM   #8203
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Please, spare the "South Italy" thing.

These highways were built by the central government/ANAS, under national tender laws, whose awardees have/had a national presence, since you cannot build such a complex road with a local construction firm capabilities only, obviously.

The thing that makes difference is whether a highway is under concession or directly managed by a public entity (I put (ex)-CAS highways on the latter category)
Yes I can agree with your argument... but I'm sorry there are no excuse. Maintenance is essential. This motorway is probably more than 30 years old and I'm shure that they never maintain those bridges... If you maintain it,you see immediatly that they are a problem, a bridge like that cannot collapse in one day... It's just crazy...
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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:35 PM   #8204
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The bridge could have been regularly maintained... The landslide next to it should have been, and hasn't.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:47 PM   #8205
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Again, and I'm sorry to say that but the fact every week show it, south Italy demonstrate his no capacity to do anything correctly. It's unbelievable!
The real problem in Sicily and southern Italy is the lack of maintenance. Probably those highways were as good as those in northern Italy when they were built, but they received very little or no maintenance in decades and they are literally falling apart. I travelled by car around Sicily in 2009 and I was surprised how bad roads and motorways were in comparison with mainland Italy. Potholes, almost vanished road markings, shoulders covered by overgrown weeds, rusty and discoloured road signs, parking bays used as garbage dumps, missing road signs on intersections,... sometimes it feels like travelling in a developing country.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Please, spare the "South Italy" thing.

These highways were built by the central government/ANAS, under national tender laws, whose awardees have/had a national presence, since you cannot build such a complex road with a local construction firm capabilities only, obviously.

The thing that makes difference is whether a highway is under concession or directly managed by a public entity (I put (ex)-CAS highways on the latter category)
I think A3, A19 and A29 should be put under private concession and tolled, while SS roads and minor motorway spurs should be regionalized.
Many SS roads in mainland Italy have been regionalizad or provincialized since 2001, some changing their classification, some without. Sardinia and Sicily didn't downgrade any SS road, although it would be logical for them to have only regional roads and not national roads, as their roads don't connect with roads in other regions for obvious reasons.

Most national roads in region Friuli - Venezia Giulia have been given from ANAS to the region in 2008. Since then, a lot of things improved: all roads have been entirely repaved and dozen of new intersections and roundabouts in dangerous spots have been realizad. I don't think you can find any bad SS\SR road anymore in Friuli - Venezia Giulia, not even deeper in the mountains. Meanwhile, in the nearby Veneto, many important roads that are still under ANAS, are very poorly maintaned, like SS14 and SS309.
SS14 in Veneto (ANAS):
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.77220...VHvU5L61SA!2e0
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Por...ba725b9f52b684
SS14 in Friuli-Venezia Giulia (regional):
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Por...ba725b9f52b684
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Por...ba725b9f52b684
SS309 in Veneto (ANAS, important E-road with no parallel motorway):
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Por...ba725b9f52b684
SS14 in Veneto was recently repaved but they repaved only over the potholes so the asphalt looks like a patchwork and it's almost as bumby as before.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old April 16th, 2015, 12:48 PM   #8206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
Yes I can agree with your argument... but I'm sorry there are no excuse. Maintenance is essential. This motorway is probably more than 30 years old and I'm shure that they never maintain those bridges... If you maintain it,you see immediatly that they are a problem, a bridge like that cannot collapse in one day... It's just crazy...
It was completed in 1975. The landslide was here for around a decade and nobody did nothing.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old April 16th, 2015, 03:25 PM   #8207
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An helicopter view of the affected area on A19 with a heat cam as well (skip the video to 00:25)

http://video.repubblica.it/edizione/.../197929/196967
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Old April 16th, 2015, 05:24 PM   #8208
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http://www.cefaluweb.com/2015/04/16/...polo-sincazza/

Title translation: "When people gets pissed off"

Basically people and companies from the town of Caltavuturo are building an alternate route to bypass the closed A19 stretch. They are all working free and voluntarily. The new road, built by enlarging an old country track, will connect A19 Scillato exit to Caltavuturo and SS 120.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 07:37 PM   #8209
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Quote:
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The thing that makes difference is whether a highway is under concession or directly managed by a public entity (I put (ex)-CAS highways on the latter category)
Averagely ANAS highways and expressways are way worse maintained than the ones under concession
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Old April 16th, 2015, 09:55 PM   #8210
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One very nice video

p.s this is A22
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:29 PM   #8211
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Reconstruction of the collapsed part of A19 will require 1,5 - 2 years.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:35 PM   #8212
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Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Averagely ANAS highways and expressways are way worse maintained than the ones under concession
That is what I meant, but I was ambiguous on my wording.

Autostrade per l'Italia and other concessionaires have problems and I dislike some of their political connections. Yet, they keep their network in immaculate conditions, certainly the best in Europe in terms of pavement, signaling etc.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:50 PM   #8213
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Quote:
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That is what I meant, but I was ambiguous on my wording.

Autostrade per l'Italia and other concessionaires have problems and I dislike some of their political connections. Yet, they keep their network in immaculate conditions, certainly the best in Europe in terms of pavement, signaling etc.
And rest areas! Most rest areas are well equipped with all required services, large store and restaurant, they aren't just a fuel pump with a toilet and a tiny bar.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 16th, 2015, 11:59 PM   #8214
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And rest areas! Most rest areas are well equipped with all required services, large store and restaurant, they aren't just a fuel pump with a toilet and a tiny bar.
Yes, rest areas in Italy are the best in Europe, on average.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 12:15 AM   #8215
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This temporary bypass to the A19 collapsed viaduct should be completed in 3 months (marked in yellow, the orange part already exists).
Only the collapsed viaduct (red) would be bypassed, the rest of the motorway (green) will be used, making the route only 10-15 minutes longer than before.

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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old April 17th, 2015, 08:25 AM   #8216
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Yes, rest areas in Italy are the best in Europe, on average.
I disagree. French ones are way better.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 12:28 PM   #8217
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yes , the french ones are better

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/26165057.jpg
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Old April 17th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #8218
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Italian rest areas are good inside, but concrete jungles outside.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 03:06 PM   #8219
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I haven't used Italian rest areas a lot, but they seem overcrowded with trucks. I've seen SOS bays being used as truck parking as well. Quite dangerous to accelerate from there on a shoulder that's not wide enough for a truck.
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Old April 17th, 2015, 03:22 PM   #8220
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Quote:
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I haven't used Italian rest areas a lot, but they seem overcrowded with trucks. I've seen SOS bays being used as truck parking as well. Quite dangerous to accelerate from there on a shoulder that's not wide enough for a truck.
I never saw trucks on SOS. You may have found a special trucking day in Italy when you were here.

Also the rest areas are not usually overflowing
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