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Old January 21st, 2016, 12:20 PM   #8801
Wolfgang16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
The opened branch is pretty useless IMO
May be the core part (the tunnel) is useless or may be there were environmental reasons for it, but the crossings at the eastern end of the new section were always congested. You can still see the queue warnings at the old section of tangenziale Varese. Varese needs a bypass, but it would have been better to make it toll free like in many other Italian cities.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 06:38 PM   #8802
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I just read on a local newspaper about a project to shorten A24 and A25 in central Italy by a total of almost 30 km, building three different bypass stretches:

- on the A24 a tunnel near Roviano, cutting 3 km and a series of 3 tunnels between Arsoli and Torano, cutting 3.5 km;

- on the A25, 3 tunnels between Cerchio and Bussi-Popoli, cutting 17.5 km.

You can go on this website, where there's a GMap applet showing the shortened road.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 07:45 PM   #8803
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Very interesting! Plans about the future droppen stretches?
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 11:40 PM   #8804
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Why would that be necessary? Proposal is very costly and I don't see any economical sense, especially not with just 3 km shortening of A24.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:53 AM   #8805
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20 in total. Would be interesting to see actual plans. When you put "central Italy" and "tunnels" in the same sentence it could mean a small shortening bu travelling at a much lower altitude improving the service year round. You can't really imagine what it means to have an eastward-facing mountain range so close to the sea. The area is damn snowy.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:16 PM   #8806
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Those stretches are very frequently foggy and dangerous. Digging these tunnels can surely improve the safety of this motorway,
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:26 PM   #8807
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Will the maximum elevation be reduced much?
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:28 PM   #8808
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Max elevation is at Tornimparte exit, 1100m above sea level. That part won't be modified from what I've seen.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 12:36 PM   #8809
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Snow patterns in the Apennines are complicated and subject to some very local elements, depending on the shape of local valleys. There is a large variance of avg. precipitation/snowfall at points at same altitude. Moreover, the Adriatic side has harsher climate than the Thyrrhenian with more storms.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 01:14 PM   #8810
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Looking at Google relief map I see that one tunnel could be long at least 10 km. Beside winter weather what are other reasons for such expensive change of alignment? From pictures it does not look very bad, like with A3 that really needed realignment on many places.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 01:23 PM   #8811
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I don't think they are going to build such a long tunnel, I think they'll dig several shorter ones.
What strikes me is that they planned this very expensive realignment but put aside the most important thing: direct connection A24-A14!
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 02:15 PM   #8812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't think they are going to build such a long tunnel, I think they'll dig several shorter ones.
It is said 3 tunnels, that how much I can count them from elevation profile if I put an approximately straight line between Cerchio and Popoli, longest tunnel would be around 10 km long.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 02:20 PM   #8813
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Quote:
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What strikes me is that they planned this very expensive realignment but put aside the most important thing: direct connection A24-A14!
That would be an easy task, only a new trumpet interchange and a toll barrier would be needed.
https://www.google.it/maps/@42.70182...9149302,15.75z
However, the Teramo - Giulianova section, although only 10 years old, is without hard shoulders, and that prevents it from being officially classificated as autostrada.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 03:38 PM   #8814
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Not even a toll barrier is needed. A direct interchange between two motorways shouldn't require barriers.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 03:43 PM   #8815
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You need to transform the SS80dir into A24 though. That meaning change of ownership from ANAS to Strada dei Parchi.

And I don't think that motorway respect the road construction act for an A-category road.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:28 PM   #8816
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Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
You need to transform the SS80dir into A24 though. That meaning change of ownership from ANAS to Strada dei Parchi.
No problem with that, they're doing the same with SS1 Aurelia and A12, and there are many other examples (SP19 in Brescia and A21 racc, SS35 and A36...)

Quote:
And I don't think that motorway respect the road construction act for an A-category road.
Just enlarge it, it's surely less expensive than all this project.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:36 PM   #8817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Not even a toll barrier is needed. A direct interchange between two motorways shouldn't require barriers.
Then, they'll need to install toll booths at every exit on what is now SS80dir.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:39 PM   #8818
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
No problem with that, they're doing the same with SS1 Aurelia and A12, and there are many other examples (SP19 in Brescia and A21 racc, SS35 and A36...)
Just enlarge it, it's surely less expensive than all this project.
True, definitely. Enlarge and fix that damn pavimentation, that, if nothing has changed, made the road like a rollercoaster.

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Then, they'll need to install toll booths at every exit on what is now SS80dir.
This is true indeed, actually. I didn't think of this maybe not so small problem.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 04:54 PM   #8819
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Then, they'll need to install toll booths at every exit on what is now SS80dir.
When they upgrade an expressway to motorway standard, they usually close down some of the junctions. It happened to the A21 dir (Fiorenzuola-Castelvetro) that used to have an intermediate junction (Cortemaggiore). Once completed, the A36 will have only 2 of the 5 junctions of current SS35. (Meda and Cesano, but not Seveso, Barlassina and Lentate south).
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:16 PM   #8820
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That's increases local opposition, though.
A large share of nimbies who oppose the construction of A36 do that because they'll lose the toll-free, four-lanes connection between Milan and Meda.
That's what happened with A32, that operates an open-toll system to allow locals to use certain sections for free, but it's annoying for those who drive the entire lenght.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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