daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:28 PM   #8821
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,535
Likes (Received): 21242

Plate-reading tolls will be the future, it is somehow inevitable. If Pedemontana hadn't botched the first implementation so much, we'd be already seeing more of it.

I'm confident A3 will have a plate-based toll system when completed. Not certain, but confident (the ability of local politicians in Calabria and Basilicata to extract special benefits or provisions for public works/projects out of pity for historical poverty is unparalleled, second only to the anti-Italianism of Sud Tirol autonomous province)
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:34 PM   #8822
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

A couple of years ago, ANAS proposed to introduce electronic tolling on toll-free motorways, like A3, A19, A29, GRA, A91, RA13, and maybe even on some expressways, but this plan wasn't implemented.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:44 PM   #8823
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,610
Likes (Received): 19397

It's technically not a problem to introduce license plate tolling throughout European toll roads. The limitations are currently mostly bureaucratic. If they can send you a speeding ticket, they can also send you a toll bill.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:55 PM   #8824
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

The problem is also psychological. Many people don't know how to pay, are lazy to learn how to do that, they fear fines for not having paid on time, etc...
A36, A59 and A60 have very low traffic exactly for this reason, many people simply avoid them. Having to pay the toll in an unusual way is a bigger deterrent than the toll itself, for many people.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2016, 09:49 PM   #8825
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,505
Likes (Received): 2112

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
The problem is also psychological. Many people don't know how to pay, are lazy to learn how to do that, they fear fines for not having paid on time, etc...
A36, A59 and A60 have very low traffic exactly for this reason, many people simply avoid them. Having to pay the toll in an unusual way is a bigger deterrent than the toll itself, for many people.
I don't think that's the reason why they're empty... I think it is just because they're insanely expensive...
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2016, 09:49 PM   #8826
General Maximus
Registered User
 
General Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Limoges
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 73

So what to do with foreign number plates? As far as I know foreign registered vehicles can pass through the Dartford Crossing freely. Dartford Tolls are based on number plate recognition technology.
General Maximus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 02:41 PM   #8827
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

I don't see a problem. As you can get a speeding ticket or congestion charge for your car from all over Europe so you could get toll bill.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 02:52 PM   #8828
narkelion
Brentered
 
narkelion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: L'hondra
Posts: 19,672
Likes (Received): 16488

Of course you can.

But people don't pay up for it, and I highly doubt italian highways would start an international lawsuit for 10€ of toll.
__________________
San Benedetto del Tronto (AP)
City:
47400
Urban Area: 100611
Metropolitan Area: 175818

2nd in Marche / 44th in Italy / n-th in European Union per popolazione
1st in Marche / 18th in Italy per qualità della vita
narkelion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 03:16 PM   #8829
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,535
Likes (Received): 21242

Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Of course you can.

But people don't pay up for it, and I highly doubt italian highways would start an international lawsuit for 10€ of toll.
Most Italian autostrade are not through-routes for international traffic in the way Austrian, Swiss, German routes are.

Plate-based tolling would result in huge savings, just think of the administrative costs of the toll plazas, moving cash around, the space toll plazas take etc.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 03:27 PM   #8830
narkelion
Brentered
 
narkelion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: L'hondra
Posts: 19,672
Likes (Received): 16488

I quote that. I'd use only telepass toll plazas and eliminate any other payment method.

Or maybe, 9/10 telepass and 1/10 cash (automatic only).

I don't get why telepass lanes are only 2, max 3-4 in biggest toll plazas, while there are tons of manned and unmanned cash/card lanes. Nowadays more and more people are getting the telepass, so its lanes are becoming more and more trafficated, creating that absurd situation in which the payware, fastest and cheapest (for Autostrade SpA) way of paying the toll is worse than old-style manned booth.
__________________
San Benedetto del Tronto (AP)
City:
47400
Urban Area: 100611
Metropolitan Area: 175818

2nd in Marche / 44th in Italy / n-th in European Union per popolazione
1st in Marche / 18th in Italy per qualità della vita

-Pino- liked this post
narkelion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #8831
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,505
Likes (Received): 2112

I never saw any congestion on telepass lanes in my entire life.
Maybe you can encounter congestion before, when the motorway is still narrow, due to cash toll lanes, so that you can't come close to the booth even though you have telepass.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 03:39 PM   #8832
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Nowadays more and more people are getting the telepass, so its lanes are becoming more and more trafficated, creating that absurd situation in which the payware, fastest and cheapest (for Autostrade SpA) way of paying the toll is worse than old-style manned booth.
It used to be the other way around for a pretty long time, though. When I lived in Italy in 2010, I had no Telepass but I would always pay by credit card. The ability to use the card lanes provided us with a much faster passage of the toll stations than the vast majority of users that stuck to the (much greater number of) cash lanes. But with old habits changing, and Telepass becoming easily available to foreigners too, it would only make sense to change the lane allocations. Though of course you have to be careful that the users of the cash lane will not create tailbacks that prevent quick access to the Telepass lanes.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs

narkelion liked this post
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 03:42 PM   #8833
narkelion
Brentered
 
narkelion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: L'hondra
Posts: 19,672
Likes (Received): 16488

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I never saw any congestion on telepass lanes in my entire life.
Maybe you can encounter congestion before, when the motorway is still narrow, due to cash toll lanes, so that you can't come close to the booth even though you have telepass.
I have, many times in Roma Est.

Telepass lanes totally crowded for about a km, and other lanes totally free of traffic.

Out of 17 lanes, only 4 are telepass lanes there. And telepass lane start a couple of km before the toll plaza.
__________________
San Benedetto del Tronto (AP)
City:
47400
Urban Area: 100611
Metropolitan Area: 175818

2nd in Marche / 44th in Italy / n-th in European Union per popolazione
1st in Marche / 18th in Italy per qualità della vita

g.spinoza liked this post
narkelion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 03:45 PM   #8834
narkelion
Brentered
 
narkelion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: L'hondra
Posts: 19,672
Likes (Received): 16488

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
It used to be the other way around for a pretty long time, though. When I lived in Italy in 2010, I had no Telepass but I would always pay by credit card. The ability to use the card lanes provided us with a much faster passage of the toll stations than the vast majority of users that stuck to the (much greater number of) cash lanes. But with old habits changing, and Telepass becoming easily available to foreigners too, it would only make sense to change the lane allocations. Though of course you have to be careful that the users of the cash lane will not create tailbacks that prevent quick access to the Telepass lanes.
You should simply dedicate one of the three lanes before the toll plaza to telepass users, maybe with a real curb, like a bus lane, for I don't know... 1,5/2km?
__________________
San Benedetto del Tronto (AP)
City:
47400
Urban Area: 100611
Metropolitan Area: 175818

2nd in Marche / 44th in Italy / n-th in European Union per popolazione
1st in Marche / 18th in Italy per qualità della vita
narkelion no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 05:18 PM   #8835
Highway89
Registered User
 
Highway89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La Rioja (Spain)
Posts: 765
Likes (Received): 1183

Most toll plazas I know in Spain allow electronic payment (called Via-T here) in almost all lanes. Of course some lanes are reserved exclusively for Via-T, but you can still use it in cash/card lanes.

I don't think it would be expensive for Autostrade and the other companies to implement it, at least in the most saturated toll plazas.
__________________

narkelion liked this post
Highway89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 06:44 PM   #8836
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

It's probably not too expensive to allow install electronic payment devices in the cash/card lanes. But I am not sure about its upside. A device user will in principle never use a mixed-use lane, because the latter are by nature slower. The mixed-use lane will always remain stop-and-go to some degree, as there will always be people in it that want to pay cash or use a card.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 07:10 PM   #8837
General Maximus
Registered User
 
General Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Limoges
Posts: 67
Likes (Received): 73

I've got one of these...



It works for me, and I normally get through quick, apart from the A4 in Milan where congestion because of these booths are the norm. Only downside of that card is that they get damaged rather quick, making them unsuitable for the machines to read.
General Maximus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 07:27 PM   #8838
Highway89
Registered User
 
Highway89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La Rioja (Spain)
Posts: 765
Likes (Received): 1183

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
It's probably not too expensive to allow install electronic payment devices in the cash/card lanes. But I am not sure about its upside. A device user will in principle never use a mixed-use lane, because the latter are by nature slower. The mixed-use lane will always remain stop-and-go to some degree, as there will always be people in it that want to pay cash or use a card.
Yes, but it also would allow "extra" Telepass lanes to be enabled/disabled if needed, just by turning mixed-use lanes into Telepass-only lanes, thus favouring Telepass users. That would however reduce the number of cash/card lanes and probably require installing dynamic message signs above each toll gate. In any case, it's still better than having a fixed number of Telepass lanes.
__________________

-Pino- liked this post
Highway89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 07:48 PM   #8839
GENIUS LOCI
No More Italian Mod
 
GENIUS LOCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milano
Posts: 35,320
Likes (Received): 11128

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Maximus View Post
Only downside of that card is that they get damaged rather quick, making them unsuitable for the machines to read.
It sounds a bit strange to me.

I had got one of those cards and used it for maybe 20 years without any problem.
Maybe newer ones are more fragile
__________________
URBANFILE
GENIUS LOCI no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2016, 08:25 PM   #8840
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,505
Likes (Received): 2112

I use my atm card without problem. I think many foreign card are also accepted.
g.spinoza no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
autobahn, autostrada, highways, italia, italy, motorways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium