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Old May 17th, 2016, 10:12 AM   #9041
g.spinoza
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Originally Posted by Des View Post
Very interesting concept to just have two paralel toll roads instead of widening the existing one.
Given the orography, widening existing motorway would have been extremely expensive.

I think they should have built the variante with 3 or 4 lanes per direction and decommission the old one.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:03 AM   #9042
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No. S*it happens all over Italy, not only in the South...
No no no... only in south Italy I'm sorry.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:11 AM   #9043
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Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
No no no... only in south Italy I'm sorry.
A31 is built over toxic chemical waste.
SS77 is being built with less concrete in tunnel walls than the law requires.
SS3 bis is built and rebuilt constantly substandard in order to push for its conversion to motorway (which is more profitable).

Last time I checked these are not in southern Italy.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:14 AM   #9044
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Of couse s*it happens all over Italy, but in some areas it happens more often than in others.
Of corse no. if you compare the infrastructure's of north and south , the evidence is striking. North is organized and serious , the south is a mess and pathetic...
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Old May 17th, 2016, 06:46 PM   #9045
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Of corse no. if you compare the infrastructure's of north and south , the evidence is striking. North is organized and serious , the south is a mess and pathetic...
If we are talking about motorways, of course there are more km of them in the North than in the South, but that's because of the orography and population density.

Italian Automobile Club wrote a report where some indexes were analyzed. For instance, the km of roads/100 vehicles ratio shows that the value for Northern Italy is half that of Southern Italy.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:04 PM   #9046
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Wow! The rivalry between Northern and Southern Italy come also here!
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:29 PM   #9047
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Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
Of corse no. if you compare the infrastructure's of north and south , the evidence is striking. North is organized and serious , the south is a mess and pathetic...
The major difference is between fully concession-roads and regular ANAS-roads.

SS3bis is quite an adventure, to speak so. The only reason the highways are in better shape is that they are mostly under private administration. Put A3, A18, A19 under private management and they will improve vastly (I'm talking full concessions here, not the joke of CAS).

A14 and A15 are quite good highways...

What Basilicata and Calabria lack is high speed rail. And of course there is the lack of a Messina Strait bridge...
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Old May 18th, 2016, 12:47 AM   #9048
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The major difference is between fully concession-roads and regular ANAS-roads.

SS3bis is quite an adventure, to speak so. The only reason the highways are in better shape is that they are mostly under private administration. Put A3, A18, A19 under private management and they will improve vastly (I'm talking full concessions here, not the joke of CAS).

A14 and A15 are quite good highways...

What Basilicata and Calabria lack is high speed rail. And of course there is the lack of a Messina Strait bridge...
ANAS has an 872-million-plan to upgrade A19 to modern standards. We'll wait and see...
Too bad that the current government cancelled the plan to upgrade the remaining substandard stretches of A3!
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Old May 18th, 2016, 10:55 AM   #9049
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
A31 is built over toxic chemical waste.
SS77 is being built with less concrete in tunnel walls than the law requires.
SS3 bis is built and rebuilt constantly substandard in order to push for its conversion to motorway (which is more profitable).

Last time I checked these are not in southern Italy.
You mean all the A31? Come on... please. And its not append only there but in other country to. For the ss77 what is the consequences? They just see that in some part of the tunnel, the law wasn't strictly respected. But the road is open and secure.
And if they want to convert the ss3 bis in a real motorway with modern standard why not?
No I'm sure that only in south you can have that kind of "comic" situation with bridge falling down, grass on the motorway,landslide and discharge on the road etc etc... Look this is a mentality, they don't want to do something properly, it's crazy. Except for the A14 and A15 and big part of the A3 how are now real motorway with high standard.
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Old May 18th, 2016, 11:04 AM   #9050
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Wow! The rivalry between Northern and Southern Italy come also here!
South it's five critical region: Campania is a big mess, it's just catastrophic. Calabria, Basilicata, Sicily have problem Puglia infrastructures are in some part good and some part it's critical but not as in the other 4 regions.... The other 15 regions of the country is good and well maintained.
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Old May 18th, 2016, 11:12 AM   #9051
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Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
South it's five critical region: Campania is a big mess, it's just catastrophic. Calabria, Basilicata, Sicily have problem Puglia infrastructures are in some part good and some part it's critical but not as in the other 4 regions.... The other 15 regions of the country is good and well maintained.
You don't know what you're talking about in the least, why Campania region would be a disaster in infrastructure? It seems to me that Campania has more highways and expressways than other regions, what would be catastrophic?

And then, do you really think that the rest of the regions is everything perfect?
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Old May 18th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #9052
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Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
South it's five critical region: Campania is a big mess, it's just catastrophic. Calabria, Basilicata, Sicily have problem Puglia infrastructures are in some part good and some part it's critical but not as in the other 4 regions.... The other 15 regions of the country is good and well maintained.
I went in Puglia last weekend. Puglia infrastructures are very worse maintained: SS7 from Taranto ro Grottaglie is an example, like SS106.
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Old May 18th, 2016, 12:01 PM   #9053
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Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
You mean all the A31? Come on... please.
http://www.veronasera.it/cronaca/leg...obre-2015.html

Quote:
And its not append only there but in other country to. For the ss77 what is the consequences? They just see that in some part of the tunnel, the law wasn't strictly respected. But the road is open and secure.
?? The road is not open yet.

Quote:
And if they want to convert the ss3 bis in a real motorway with modern standard why not?
Why pay for a road which was meant to be free?
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Old May 18th, 2016, 12:52 PM   #9054
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Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
You mean all the A31? Come on... please. And its not append only there but in other country to. For the ss77 what is the consequences? They just see that in some part of the tunnel, the law wasn't strictly respected. But the road is open and secure.
And if they want to convert the ss3 bis in a real motorway with modern standard why not?
No I'm sure that only in south you can have that kind of "comic" situation with bridge falling down, grass on the motorway,landslide and discharge on the road etc etc... Look this is a mentality, they don't want to do something properly, it's crazy. Except for the A14 and A15 and big part of the A3 how are now real motorway with high standard.
A15 is between Parma and La Spezia, in northern Italy. Do you mean A16 (Naples - Canosa)?
A31: the newest part (Vicenza - Badia Polesine, built in 2005-2015) was built over toxic waste, indeed. I'm not sure if the entire 50km lenght, but some parts certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
South it's five critical region: Campania is a big mess, it's just catastrophic. Calabria, Basilicata, Sicily have problem Puglia infrastructures are in some part good and some part it's critical but not as in the other 4 regions.... The other 15 regions of the country is good and well maintained.
Campania has huge issues with organized crime (camorra) and with environmental pollution. Road infrastructure aren't the worse issue (at least in terms of network, I'm not sure about quality) and are certainly better than in Calabria or Sicily (but Campania is more dense, so more traffic).
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 18th, 2016, 02:29 PM   #9055
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Why pay for a road which was meant to be free?
What is the traffic on SS3? Because the only answer to Your question shall be: because the trafic requires a road with features of a motorway, and because there is no public money to build it "toll free".
For sure is not the lack of maintainance to justify such an investment, but of course the huge cost of maintainance of a road not fit for the trafic it carries, can explain a lack of it.
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Old May 18th, 2016, 11:50 PM   #9056
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http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cron...9e5de40a8.html

The last photo shows clearly the new signal for the A1 Var.
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Old May 19th, 2016, 12:22 AM   #9057
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Originally Posted by lucaf1 View Post
http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/cron...9e5de40a8.html

The last photo shows clearly the new signal for the A1 Var.
Here it goes (from that link)
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Old May 21st, 2016, 03:39 PM   #9058
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Originally Posted by Insulateshipper View Post
South it's five critical region: Campania is a big mess, it's just catastrophic. Calabria, Basilicata, Sicily have problem Puglia infrastructures are in some part good and some part it's critical but not as in the other 4 regions.... The other 15 regions of the country is good and well maintained.
Campania has one of the best motorway system south of Florence. What are you talking about?
A30 motorway; Caserta-Salerno (photos by mistikos)


A3 motorway; Naples-Salerno near Torre Annunziata (photo by stabia)

A3 motorway near Salerno
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Old May 21st, 2016, 03:58 PM   #9059
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Originally Posted by Autobahn-mann View Post
Wow! The rivalry between Northern and Southern Italy come also here!
He's an ignorant troll, but just ignore him.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 04:00 PM   #9060
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A3 motorway from Naples to Castellammare was completed on 16th March 2015, the foto isn't by stabia but by a website.

Puglia has a not bad motorway sistem: there are a lot of roads with two lane and the emergency lane, like SP367, SS7, SS101, SS613 and SS694. I travelled on them and they are bad maintained. With a very good maintaining, they should be very good. Unfortunately, expecially from Taranto to Grottaglie, there are a lot of holes.

Do you confirm, Il Tarantino?
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Last edited by mistikos; May 21st, 2016 at 04:10 PM.
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