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Old August 17th, 2016, 10:47 PM   #9221
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Everything was found on ANAS official site. Too bad they don't bother removing outdated info. Apart the Termoli-San Vittore and the outer Palermo bypass, I've never heard of other projects before, so I though they were more recent ideas.
When they canceled the eastern bypass of Turin project, someone came up with an absurd idea:
http://www.lastampa.it/2014/09/18/cr...mI/pagina.html

A tunnel under Po, not transversal but longitudinal. Basically a double decker: above the river, below the road!

The Corso Marche bypass is an idea that came out during the first stages of the new Frejus railway tunnel project.
http://www.parallelo45.com/p45magazine_art.asp?IdArt=71

Regarding Termoli-San Vittore, the project is scrapped as I said, apart for a 9-km stretch between Venafro (where the first stretch of that motorway was actually built) and A1 at Mignano Montelungo:
http://www.primonumero.it/attualita/...-con-l-a1.html
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Old August 17th, 2016, 11:30 PM   #9222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
When they canceled the eastern bypass of Turin project, someone came up with an absurd idea:
Why was it canceled? The western bypass is always crowded. Would the eastern bypass not relieve the western one? Too far in the east and no chance to build it closer to the city? Do I overrate transit compared to local traffic and eastern bypass would mainly serve transit traffic?
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Old August 18th, 2016, 10:06 AM   #9223
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Why was it canceled? The western bypass is always crowded. Would the eastern bypass not relieve the western one? Too far in the east and no chance to build it closer to the city? Do I overrate transit compared to local traffic and eastern bypass would mainly serve transit traffic?
Western bypass of Turin is not always crowded, only at rush hour and one direction at a time (South in the morning, North in the evening). It is a full motorway with 3 lanes and wide shoulder, 130 km/h limit, unlike its Milanese sisters (which ARE crowded all the time).

Eastern bypass would be useless for urban traffic. It would lie on the other side of a chain of high hills (Maddalena, Superga) and basically nobody in Turin would use it to get to the other side of the city. In that regard the Corso Marche bypass, or even the absurd tunnel under Po would be more useful.

Keep also in mind that Turin is one of the biggest centre of anarchists and opposers: look to what they're doing about the HST line Turin-Lyon and its base tunnel (if you don't know what they're doing, basically it's urban guerrilla on a daily basis since 10 years). The "No Eastern bypass" movement is quite vocal, too.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 11:02 AM   #9224
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Western bypass of Turin is not always crowded, only at rush hour and one direction at a time (South in the morning, North in the evening).
Yes, it's "only" rush hour but almost every day... In addition, I think it's (partially) in both directions, e.g. if there's an accident.

Accidents can happen anywhere at any time but if there's an alternative route, there is a chance (minimum for not-urban-traffic) to avoid the route. But Turin has no alternative route except through the city...
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Old August 18th, 2016, 11:22 AM   #9225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Yes, it's "only" rush hour but almost every day... In addition, I think it's (partially) in both directions, e.g. if there's an accident.

Accidents can happen anywhere at any time but if there's an alternative route, there is a chance (minimum for not-urban-traffic) to avoid the route. But Turin has no alternative route except through the city...
Keep another thing in mind: almost nobody uses the bypass to get to the south side of Turin from north and vice versa. Most people go through the city anyway: the bypass is too long.

I live in the northwest of Turin and work in the south: I usually take buses and trains but sometimes I drive. I used to drive the bypass but it takes me the same time than driving through the city and it's 2.5 times longer.
The bypass is almost exclusively used by people living in the surrounding towns going to work in Turin.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 11:28 AM   #9226
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I do like the idea um a sub-river tunnel, but it would be extremely expensive and unlikely to be built. Authorities should have pushed an urban expressway on the bank of the Po when such projects were politically feasible in the 1960s/1970s, connecting stubs at the ends of A55 and A6.

Realistically in the short term I jsut want them to finish the Asti-Cuneo highway (A33), which has a gap and one end missing still.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 11:37 AM   #9227
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I do like the idea um a sub-river tunnel, but it would be extremely expensive and unlikely to be built. Authorities should have pushed an urban expressway on the bank of the Po when such projects were politically feasible in the 1960s/1970s, connecting stubs at the ends of A55 and A6.
Please not, it would have destroyed the city.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 12:09 PM   #9228
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Please not, it would have destroyed the city.
Has the sopraelevata "destroyed" Genova? Have the handful of tangenziale destroyed Napoli?
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Old August 18th, 2016, 12:21 PM   #9229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Has the sopraelevata "destroyed" Genova?
Most definitely, yes.

Quote:
Have the handful of tangenziale destroyed Napoli?
Tangenziale of Napoli is quite far from the city centre, so in this case, no.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 01:08 PM   #9230
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Outer bypass of Palermo (19.4 km)

Preliminar project is already done.
Today's news: this won't be built either.

http://livesicilia.it/2016/08/18/nuo...ilioni_707486/
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Old August 18th, 2016, 01:31 PM   #9231
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Tangenziale of Napoli is quite far from the city centre, so in this case, no.
But in its most urban stretch is a 'monster' over the head of people living below

https://www.google.it/maps/@40.86856...7i13312!8i6656
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Old August 18th, 2016, 01:39 PM   #9232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Today's news: this won't be built either.

http://livesicilia.it/2016/08/18/nuo...ilioni_707486/
I know that building a bypass for Palermo is everything but easy and cheap, but the fact Sicily capital hasn't one is quite a shame.
Over all in a country where pretty every important city got at least a motorway bypass (and Palermo is the 5th Italian city by inhabitants), often built in more difficult environments
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Old August 18th, 2016, 02:11 PM   #9233
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Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
I know that building a bypass for Palermo is everything but easy and cheap, but the fact Sicily capital hasn't one is quite a shame.
Over all in a country where pretty every important city got at least a motorway bypass (and Palermo is the 5th Italian city by inhabitants), often built in more difficult environments
Fortunately now all junctions on Viale della Regione Siciliana (Sicilian Region Boulevard, basically a 3x2 urban freeway connecting A19 and A29) are fully grade-separated and there are frontage roads for local traffic. There are still a couple of zebra crossings with traffic lights left, but they will probably be removed too.
Is Viale della Regione Siciliana usually very congested?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 02:25 PM   #9234
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Is Viale della Regione Siciliana usually very congested?
I don't know if it is congested, but from driving there several times I can say it looks a rather bad urban expressway with tight lanes and scooters zapping illegally between cars in dare-devil-ish manner. I think is has heavy traffic but it is not a bottleneck on itself. The junctions however are.

The current cabinet is not in favor of much development-related infrastructure investment in southernmost regions and the islands, hopefully whomever succeeds the PM has other ideas about that.
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Old August 18th, 2016, 02:42 PM   #9235
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The current cabinet is not in favor of much development-related infrastructure investment in southernmost regions and the islands
No?

This recent interview with infrastructures minister (by a newspaper which 'dislikes' this governement) tells something different.

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politi...i-1159555.html

Then his politics are more rail oriented than car oriented
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Old August 18th, 2016, 11:03 PM   #9236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Is Viale della Regione Siciliana usually very congested?
Yes, perhaps it is still the busiest urban road in Italy

http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubbl...ta-italia.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
No?

This recent interview with infrastructures minister (by a newspaper which 'dislikes' this governement) tells something different.

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politi...i-1159555.html

Then his politics are more rail oriented than car oriented
Just words and promises. And then they often included things already founded.
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte

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Old August 18th, 2016, 11:33 PM   #9237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Is Viale della Regione Siciliana usually very congested?
It was few weeks ago, with some traffic jams (nothing too serious). Better frontage roads with less access to main road and removal of those two zebra crossings would help a lot.
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Old August 19th, 2016, 11:43 AM   #9238
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CIPE (Inter-ministry committee for economic planning) recently approved first lot of Valtrompia motorway (A4 Brescia ovest - Concesio/Sarezzo).
It's 7 km long and its cost is 250 M€. It's a complex deal that involves construction also of Valdastico Nord and the renewal of concession for Autostrada Brescia-Padova until 2026.

I can't find any detailed project and I don't know how they calculated its length (Ospitaletto - Concesio is 17 km, maybe it's just a part of it).

They say works will start at the beginning of 2017.
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Old August 19th, 2016, 08:21 PM   #9239
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A1 Direttissima (La Quercia - Barberino)

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Old August 25th, 2016, 10:54 AM   #9240
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An unusual "English style" configuration on an urban street in Turin:

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