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Old September 4th, 2016, 02:14 AM   #9261
pccvspw999
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[I] Italy | road infrastructure • strade e autostrade

And the question is: if the main stretch was ment not more of national interest and therefore downgraded (it is not the proper word), why for the sake of the nation shall the secundary stretch still remain of national interest?
The only reasons I can immagine, suggest that a completely new number shall be given to it.
That the numbers were not recycled is not necessarely a mistake, but there shall be a certain order, p.e. geographically., to not have similar numbers spreaded over the nation.
And why shall a 0,7km long road of clearly local interest, be maintained by ANAS? It has to deal with more important issues!
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Old September 4th, 2016, 12:27 PM   #9262
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I've investigated further, and found that SS 108 was actually chopped into three sections by SS 19 and SS 107. For some odd reason the middle and eastern sections were given the 'branch' numbers of SS 108 bis and SS 108 ter. Then ANAS dropped the western and eastern sections and retained the middle one, thus giving the weird situation of having SS 108 bis without a SS 108. They should have renumbered it as just plain SS 108.

As for the '0.7 km long road of clearly local interest' that is the crazily numbered SS 109 bis dir A, it is actually a long exit off SS 109 bis, labelled in Google Maps as Via Giuseppe Schiavi. Most other countries would have left it unnumbered. It got that number because a SS 109 bis dir already existed since three years before, the Eastern bypass of Catanzaro.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 01:58 PM   #9263
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[I] Italy | road infrastructure • strade e autostrade

I may suppose that every road has a number which is mainly not stated when it's a comunal road. As per example, in Milan the comunal road no.1 ist called Piazza del Duomo.
Names may change over the years, but the number stay.
Isn't it the same also in foreign countries?
I'm pretty sure that's the same in Germany. In the US many roads are called with their numbers, but in England?
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Old September 4th, 2016, 04:08 PM   #9264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
Names may change over the years, but the number stay.
Isn't it the same also in foreign countries?
I'm pretty sure that's the same in Germany.
Autobahn numbering has been changed more than once. The last modification was in the 1970s though. Bundesstraßen (federal roads which are not Autobahns) numbers may also change. Currently, a lot of Bundesstraßen - or just Bundesstraßen segments - are rededicated to Landesstraßen (state's roads) and get new numbers. Of course, not all signs are changed immediately and people still call the road by its old B numbering name. In addition, Bundesstraßen are sometimes no longer continuously but split into many segments now...

I think, names usually stay but numbers may change over the years...
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Old September 4th, 2016, 05:29 PM   #9265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
That the numbers were not recycled is not necessarely a mistake, but there shall be a certain order, p.e. geographically., to not have similar numbers spreaded over the nation.
Italian road numbers aren't geography-related since 1946.
Older numbers remain in use (unless the road itself ceased to be a national road), but new national roads issued after 1946 adopt the lowest available number, regardless their geograhical location.
Within the 1928 numbering scheme, national roads were numbered as following:
1-8: roads radiating from Rome
9-19: other main cross-country roads not radiating from Rome
20-34: Piedmont
35-45: Lombardy and Trentino-Alto Adige
46-61: Veneto, Friuli, Istria and Carniola
62-79: Emilia-Romagna, Tuscany, Marche and Umbria
80-86: Lazio, Abruzzo and Molise
87-104: Campania, Apulia and Basilicata
105-112: Calabria
113-124: Sicily
125-134: Sardinia
135-139: Dalmatia
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Old September 4th, 2016, 05:42 PM   #9266
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[I] Italy | road infrastructure • strade e autostrade

@Michih:
Yes, of course. But I was thinking more about roads not changing administration, and roads within city boundaries.
The numbers are, so to say, the registration number of the road for the respective administration in charge of them.
If a road changes administration, or it's deverted by a new alignment, of course the numbering changes.
But the difference to Germany is that: when a "Bundesstrasse" (strada statale) gets "Landesstrasse" (strada regionale or provinciale), having the same problem that signs take a while to be changed, the new owner gives a numbering wich reminds the old designation "Landesstrasse B10 A.D." (Strada provinciale ex SS11), which btw. allows to keep the old road sings and habits.
We still keep thinking that the state roads still are, even if these were dismissed since a decade....

Within city boundaries it's more often that a stretch of a road is named after new person who deserves it. It shall became also a new number, but not if the whole street is renamed.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 05:48 PM   #9267
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[I] Italy | road infrastructure • strade e autostrade

@Italystf: and that's the mess! And even worse, because the designation as "dir", "bis", "ter", etc. seems also having no rule to follow.
And so SS108bis still exists, even when SS108 doesn't any more.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 06:02 PM   #9268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
@Michih:
But the difference to Germany is that: when a "Bundesstrasse" (strada statale) gets "Landesstrasse" (strada regionale or provinciale), having the same problem that signs take a while to be changed, the new owner gives a numbering wich reminds the old designation "Landesstrasse B10 A.D." (Strada provinciale ex SS11), which btw. allows to keep the old road sings and habits.
We still keep thinking that the state roads still are, even if these were dismissed since a decade....

Within city boundaries it's more often that a stretch of a road is named after new person who deserves it. It shall became also a new number, but not if the whole street is renamed.
There are no national laws about numbering of regional and provincial roads, so each region and province chose its own way.
Some roads changed just they prefixes, but not their numbers, when they were downgraded: for example from SS53 (strada statale 53) to SR53 (strada regionale 53). Other changed also the number (for example SS203 bis became SR204).
In Trentino-Alto Adige there are not national roads anymore, since they are all maintanied by the provinces, yet they decided to keep the SS prefix on former national roads.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old September 4th, 2016, 06:14 PM   #9269
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[I] Italy | road infrastructure • strade e autostrade

Yes, and that is what I'm complaining about italian numbering.
And there's another problem: as far regional roads didn't exist before, calling former SS11 as SR11 it's still univocal. But in those regions which decided to entrust provinces, which already had an own "road office", with the roads the state gave them, SP11 already existed and therefore the designation as "ex SS11" was chosen. Once more confusing.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #9270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
Yes, and that is what I'm complaining about italian numbering.
And there's another problem: as far regional roads didn't exist before, calling former SS11 as SR11 it's still univocal. But in those regions which decided to entrust provinces, which already had an own "road office", with the roads the state gave them, SP11 already existed and therefore the designation as "ex SS11" was chosen. Once more confusing.
That's because Lombardy region doesn't use SR designation.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old September 4th, 2016, 07:19 PM   #9271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
That's because Lombardy region doesn't use SR designation.

But if provinces will be abolished, Lombardy (and other regions, too) will have to deal with this matter.
I guess we will have: "SR ex SP ex SS11"...
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Old September 6th, 2016, 12:52 AM   #9272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
In the US many roads are called with their numbers, but in England?
Depends on conversational context (eg if talking about a specific local road to locals, you'd use the name or a description "the road to x town"), whether the road is in a major urban area/has a memorable name (in which case names are typically used), whether the road is a motorway (so might be just 'the motorway' if there's only one in context, or its number) or a bypass (when you might use 'the bypass' or 'the <town name> bypass') and also things like the importance of the number (the B1234 is only likely to be called that if there is no name, or several names). But most off the time, numbers are used in England.

I'm currently in Telford, which is a mess of renumbering (almost all some time ago as the New Town was built), and a mess of patches on signs, road numbers crossed out with new ones added. However it's the exception, rather than the rule for Britain.
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Old September 6th, 2016, 09:30 PM   #9273
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S.S. 640 Agrigento-Caltanissetta

II lot - update works at 2th July 2016



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Old September 6th, 2016, 09:36 PM   #9274
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I have not read the entire thread but in case nobody noticed yet:

SS16 Maglie-Otranto is open and marked as a motorway with blue color (I think they call it superstrada in Italy) except for around 1400m between km 995,7 and 997,1 - that's a short stretch east of Palmariggi and west of the terminus at Otranto roundabout.

The speed limit is 110 km/h except for the section from Palmariggi west to east, where it is 90 km/h.

The missing section of around 1400m is already paved, but I did not see any construction work going on today (a regular working day). Traffic is deviated right next to the new motorway on a paved road with a 30km/h speed limit (locals drive with >70km/h here)

I might be able to take some pictures, if you are interested, as I am still in the area for some days.
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Old September 6th, 2016, 09:58 PM   #9275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
5 August 2016

A 14.1 km section of SS16 expressway opened to traffic between Maglie and Otranto, in Apulia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
S.S. 16 "Adriatica" - Apulia region
opened to traffic

1400m not (yet) opened? Is the opened section 14.1km or 12.7km?
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Old September 10th, 2016, 01:03 AM   #9276
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A western bypass of Gorizia (SR117) is currently under construction, and it should be completed next August:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/45.9294/13.5649
It will complete the SR117, that, for decades, is ending in the middle of nowhere.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old September 10th, 2016, 02:53 AM   #9277
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Wasn't this road something SS56 not so long ago? Anyway, it would be great to build it further also on the easternmost end, to join Vrtojba bypass.
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Old September 10th, 2016, 11:05 AM   #9278
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Wasn't this road something SS56 not so long ago? Anyway, it would be great to build it further also on the easternmost end, to join Vrtojba bypass.
No, SS56 became SR56, and it's the old road between Udine and Gorizia.
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Old September 11th, 2016, 03:31 PM   #9279
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Reported flooding yesterday in Puglia. This looks like SS379



Italy has a lot of severe weather. There are frequently flash floods, large hail and occassionaly a strong tornado.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 10:58 AM   #9280
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New bridge inogurate in BARI, Puglia.
This bridge connect the A14 with expressway to the port and center.



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