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Old December 23rd, 2016, 12:32 PM   #9421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
  • two sectors had works, which never started, just cancelled, so the highway is just the same 1970s expressway standard regarding width and cramped exits, just with newer cosmetic and safety features (total of almost 40km)
This summer cosmetic and safety features were completed on only 2 of 3 km of one section and on other parts there were no indications of any work commencing. I believe that most of those 40 km "refurbished" sections were not refurbished at all.
A30-A3 part also need serious renovation ASAP.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 03:43 PM   #9422
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Today it's exactly 1 year since the Variante di Valico between Bologna and Florence opened to traffic:
- accidents decreased of 26%
- deaths and injures decreased of 33%
- 100 million liters of fuel have been saved
http://firenze.repubblica.it/cronaca...9929/?ref=fbpr
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 10:33 PM   #9423
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Wow, I haven't noticed before, but that map is not just old but plain wrong
RA5 (motorway branch from A3 to Potenza) is missing, while SS106 Capo Spulco-Sibari is marked as dual-carriaggeway while it isn't.
I have a question regarding RA5.
Drove there a few times in October this year when being at a holiday in Matera.
When was this motorway built? Was it at he same time with the old motorway Salerno-Reggio Calabria, because they have same characteristics: rather narrow lanes without emergency hard shoulders, steep grades, curvy line and a few very interesting reinforced concrete viaducts from the engineering point of view.
However it is interesting, that the allowed speed at parts of the RA5 which are currently not under refurbishment, is 130 kmh and there is no Safety Tutor masts at this motorway at all (or Vergilius, as it is called from Sicignano to Salerno).
What is even more curious, when passing Potenza in Metaponte direction, the road altogether looks as motorway, a bit curvy in the vicinity of Potenza, but then again, from Trivigno to Grassano, this is basically the same motorway as RA5, although degraded to a common road. One must especially be careful to flocks of cows and sheeps, I saw even goats (believe me, the Italians produce the best sheep- or goat-made cheese). At Grassano there is an interesting trompet interchange, built entirely on viaducts. From there to Ferrandina this road posseses interchanges, but is without the hard divider, dividing lanes only with two wide white lines (one must there be especially careful in fog). The last interesting thing is the existence of few unfinished gas stations, but now in ruins.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 10:42 PM   #9424
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What I wanted to point, it seems to me that the Italian state wanted to build in the 1960es two major motorways: Salerno-Reggio di Calabria and Sicignano-Potenza-Metaponte-Taranto. I found on the Internet (although the findings are very tiny) that some politicians from unknown reasons blocked the second motorway to Metaponte when already finished to Potenza, in heavy state of finishing the "motorway" from Potenza to Grassano, and with earth works done from Grassano to Metaponte. It would be fine to refurbish it completely, to make the New Jersey barrier instead of double white line divider and upgrade it to the motorway. OMG, I'm dreaming...
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 11:19 PM   #9425
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Sicignano-Potenza motorway opened around 1970. It's quite substandard for being a motorway, but there's no plan to upgrade it, probably because traffic volume won't justify it.
Potenza-Metaponto is a 4-lanes road without median. Many roads were built like that in the 1970s, but most have since been upgraded (like A34 Villesse-Gorizia).
I had no idea that Potenza-Metaponto-Taranto was supposed to be a motorway.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old December 24th, 2016, 12:24 AM   #9426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Sicignano-Potenza motorway opened around 1970. It's quite substandard for being a motorway, but there's no plan to upgrade it, probably because traffic volume won't justify it.
Potenza-Metaponto is a 4-lanes road without median. Many roads were built like that in the 1970s, but most have since been upgraded (like A34 Villesse-Gorizia).
I had no idea that Potenza-Metaponto-Taranto was supposed to be a motorway.
Thank you for the answer.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 09:23 AM   #9427
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4 lanes without median are illegal now in Italy. Sooner or later, they would have to upgrade it.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 09:54 AM   #9428
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4 lanes without median are illegal now in Italy. Sooner or later, they would have to upgrade it.


Can You please explain where You got this statement? What is Your source?
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Old December 25th, 2016, 10:05 AM   #9429
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If you look at the classification of Italian roads, where A is motorway, B is extraurbana principale etc, you will see that the only category where it is acceptable to have more than one lane per direction and no divider is category E "neighborhood roads".
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Old December 25th, 2016, 10:45 AM   #9430
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4 lanes without median are illegal now in Italy. Sooner or later, they would have to upgrade it.
I think it only applies to new built or reconstructed roads. I don't think it's mandatory to upgrade old roads.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old December 25th, 2016, 11:26 AM   #9431
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause
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Old December 25th, 2016, 11:35 AM   #9432
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These expressways (for most part) crossing the southern part of the peninsula on an E <=> W direction in Basilicata and Calabria (linking A3 with the Jonian coast) are all rather scenic IMHO.

I have driven most of them, and I particularly like SS653, with lots of terrain change and interesting overviews of the flood plains from its embankments and viaducts; SS107 (signed only as E846 on Google Maps), for its tight-ish curves and generous views of the Sila mountains + altitude changes; and SS682, which has some 20km built on viaducts over river plains as well.

The ubiquitous bad thing from a scenic point are the inordinate number of unfinished construction around medium and larger cities, and the rapidly-decaying looks of several coastal 'resort towns' that were developed haphazardly in the 1970s and 1980s (many with plenty of unfinished buildings or just buildings without any exterior finish altogether).

Further North, the semi-circle drive from Battipaglia to Padula (both on A3) via SS18-SS18var-SP430-SS517var is also highly recommended IMHO. South of Paestum it is almost entirely a 1+1 expressway with many viaducts as it soars through the mountains, giving great views especially on Spring and early summer.

Of course it is always possible to enjoy the scenery on lengthier trips through local roads, however these expressways allow good views without slowing you down to average speed of 40km/h.
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Last edited by Suburbanist; December 25th, 2016 at 11:52 AM.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 11:56 AM   #9433
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I think it only applies to new built or reconstructed roads. I don't think it's mandatory to upgrade old roads.
I think it is.
In Brescia they expanded tangenziale to three lanes recently: they were also forced to put a divider on a very small stretch of road (< 1km), outside tangenziale, which had 4 undivided lanes, completely outside the project.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 11:58 AM   #9434
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This is not always applicable.
For instance, safety restrictions are usually applicable backwards.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 12:07 PM   #9435
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Missed on the laments about the "un-modernized" sector of A3 south of Cosenza is the fact the ambitious SS106 project has also been pushed back to a very uncertain future, with exception of the sector between Squillace and Rocella Jonica (the part between both completed new expressway segments), Locri-Bovalino, and the works north of Sibari. The once ambitious plans to extend the expressway from Catanzaro Lido to Crotone are postponed for now, as are the plans to extend a 2+2 expressway from Regio Calabria to Porto Salvo.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 12:22 PM   #9436
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I think it is.
In Brescia they expanded tangenziale to three lanes recently: they were also forced to put a divider on a very small stretch of road (< 1km), outside tangenziale, which had 4 undivided lanes, completely outside the project.
I don't know.
I know the case of SR354 Latisana-Lignano. They are going to replace traffic lights with roundabouts but there is no plan to put a divide in the middle. This one is quite dangerous because it also has left turns towards local roads and private driveways.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 07:29 PM   #9437
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There is no prohibition to build a "C"-Road (extra urban road) with two o more lanes per direction. The codex itself says that a "C"-road must have "at least one lane per direction", an the norm describing how roads shall be build, is just showing examples but it is not exhaustive for all possible combinations of structural elements which can be used to build a road.
So far a "C"-road without median (not compulsory like it is for "A" and "B"-roads) can be build with 2+2 lanes and 90km/h speed limit. Therefore all existing roads with this feature are still legal.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 08:08 PM   #9438
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There is no prohibition to build a "C"-Road (extra urban road) with two o more lanes per direction. The codex itself says that a "C"-road must have "at least one lane per direction", an the norm describing how roads shall be build, is just showing examples but it is not exhaustive for all possible combinations of structural elements which can be used to build a road.
So far a "C"-road without median (not compulsory like it is for "A" and "B"-roads) can be build with 2+2 lanes and 90km/h speed limit. Therefore all existing roads with this feature are still legal.
I thought they were prohibited when also 3-laned road (with central promiscuous passing lane) where prohibited. Can't find any laws stating that though.
Maybe I'm wrong, then.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 12:41 AM   #9439
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I've read that all new rural dual-carriaggeway roads must be either A-category (motorway, min 25m, 130kph) or B-category (expressway, min 22m, 110kph).
It doesn't say anything about the legitimacy of single-carriaggeway 4-lanes C-category roads, since they aren't dual carriaggeways.
However, I can't think of any new undivided 4-lanes road (also old ones are rare), so probably this kind of roads disappeared from the road planning practice even if it wasn't formally abolished by law.
I think that undivided 4-lanes roads are very dangerous because the 4-lanes configurations encourages driving at motorway speed, but the lack of the median don't ensure the level of safety provided by motorways/motorway-like-roads.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 01:45 AM   #9440
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There is no prohibition to build a "C"-Road (extra urban road) with two o more lanes per direction. The codex itself says that a "C"-road must have "at least one lane per direction", an the norm describing how roads shall be build, is just showing examples but it is not exhaustive for all possible combinations of structural elements which can be used to build a road.
So far a "C"-road without median (not compulsory like it is for "A" and "B"-roads) can be build with 2+2 lanes and 90km/h speed limit. Therefore all existing roads with this feature are still legal.
That's true.
It seems that the E847 or SS407 from Calciano to Macchia is actually a C-road, because the speed limit there is 90 kmh. (However I must admit that most of the people there drive with speed limit about 100 to 110 kmh, even some lorries.)
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