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Old January 19th, 2017, 09:01 AM   #9461
g.spinoza
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Do you recall that overpass that collapsed, few weeks ago, over SS 36 when an overload truck passed on it?
If you don't, here's the video:


It seems that the mistake generating this disaster was metrologic in nature. In fact, this document authorized the truck for a load of 108 quintals (which is a unit encompassing 100 kg):



The truck, however, weighed 108 tons... that is, 10 times more.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:39 AM   #9462
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So who is guilty if SI units are not used in official documents?
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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:46 AM   #9463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
So who is guilty if SI units are not used in official documents?
I'm not sure, I think the matter is complex.
For instance, the Italian Agency of Revenue, for agricultural land area, officially uses "ara" which is equal to 100 m^2, but not an SI unit.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:47 AM   #9464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
So who is guilty if SI units are not used in official documents?
There's no law forcing to use SI units. One must know the difference between quintal and ton, they're metric multiples of the kg, even schoolchildren know that.

Anyway, this reminds me of this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 10:54 AM   #9465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There's no law forcing to use SI units. One must know the difference between quintal and ton, they're metric multiples of the kg, even schoolchildren know that.
Quintal in most languages is very arhaic form of measurement and is not used in everyday use anymore. Also its mass varies acros different countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintal
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Old January 19th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #9466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There's no law forcing to use SI units. One must know the difference between quintal and ton, they're metric multiples of the kg, even schoolchildren know that.

Anyway, this reminds me of this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
Or this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_C...use_of_failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Quintal in most languages is very arhaic form of measurement and is not used in everyday use anymore. Also its mass varies acros different countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintal
In Italy "quintale" is unambiguous. I wonder if they have also documents in English for foreign trucks and drivers...
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Old January 19th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #9467
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Tonnes aren't SI either - hence why Canada writes it out as 3.500kg (Mg are never going to happen are they?)

Arguably one of the big flaws of SI is the lack of prefixes for 10^1, 10^2, 10^4, 10^5. Here we had 100kg being a useful measure - perfectly metric and all that - one can call it a hecto-kilogram and be right and wish that the base unit for weight was called something else like 'bob'. Hectobobs are perfectly fine and dandy, when you consider French wine is sold by the centilitre, land across the world is measured in the hectare (an are being 100m^2 and having a silly name), etc.

Stuff like that space mission where one team worked in inches and the other centimetres and both produced realistic results is problematic as they produced realistic results. Oh, and they didn't write the units down, confusing everyone. 108 tons is clearly not realistic for a truck that is only cleared for a tenth of that and the units are given on the document. That the truck has been running for 20 years without anyone making that mistake shows that the issue is not the use of quintals, but idiots overloading a truck.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 11:42 AM   #9468
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Well, for a 16 metres 4 or 5 aixle semi-truck 10 tons are very, very few. The trailer itself may have a weight near to that, i.e. 10.8 tons are realistic as the weight of the complete vehicle unloaded. Permitted total weight (loaded) of such trucks are usually between 24-42 tons.
In EU the maximal permitted weight is 11.5 tons per axle (i.e. axle load). (The regulations are a little bit more complicated, but no need for more detailed explanations here.)
I speak basic Italian, I understand every words but I'm not sure what peso complessivo in vehicle certifications exactly mean. But meaning the maximal permitted loaded weight sounds very unrealistic (or it is the certification of another truck...)

On the other side, 108 tons means an extreme overloading any way. It means a loading of 90-100 tons on that trailer. What did that truck transport? Lead?
Axle load of rear axles must have been multiple times more than permitted. If it is true and the truck was really over one hundred tons, it's a miracle (however a very unlucky one in this case) that the trailer did not collapse. It was loaded at least three times above the weight the construction was designed for.

I'm quite sure every certificated truck drivers know that such a truck may never have a complete weight above 46 tons. Such a misunderstanding is pretty unbelievable. You're a meterologist, if someone tells you the estimated temperature in some unknown town in Africa for tomorrow is 90 degrees, you will surely understand it may not be Celsius.

And, sorry, but that exactly ten times overloading, i.e. 108 tons instead of 10.8 tons sounds like a hoax. I would rather believe it if it was not so precisely 1q => 1t.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 12:19 PM   #9469
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The truck transported steel coils.

I guess the misunderstanding was possible:
" What do you transport?"
"Steel coils"
"How much is the weight"?
"108" (meaning tons)
"Ok" (writes down 108 in the blank space, intended for quintals)
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Old January 19th, 2017, 08:30 PM   #9470
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Since when it's necessary to have an authorization for a truck weighing 10,8 tons?
Who worte this document intended to authorize 108 ton and didn't worte the missing "0".
It's not that mistake which caused the accident!
Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There's no law forcing to use SI units. One must know the difference between quintal and ton, they're metric multiples of the kg, even schoolchildren know that.
Of course there is, at least in Italy: the presidential decree no.802/1982 which introduced in Italy the SI as compulsory metrologic system.
Any misue or abuse is fined from €258,23 up to €774,69. For every single case! Can become an huge amount.
But who cares?
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Old January 19th, 2017, 08:37 PM   #9471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
Since when it's necessary to have an authorization for a truck weighing 10,8 tons?
Who worte this document intended to authorize 108 ton and didn't worte the missing "0".
It's not that mistake which caused the accident!

Of course there is, at least in Italy: the presidential decree no.802/1982 which introduced in Italy the SI as compulsory metrologic system.
Any misue or abuse is fined from €258,23 up to €774,69. For every single case! Can become an huge amount.
But who cares?
I'm not sure it's that automatic.
Litre is not an SI unit, but it's widely used. Neither is Celsius degree: kelvin is the only SI unit for temperature.
I guess there are some tolerated units. I think quintal was completely abolished, though.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 08:54 PM   #9472
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Of course there are tollarated historic units "not SI", from SI itself, not only by the law.
l, t, min, h, d, bar, eV, for example.
"quintali" isn't one of them.

Who issued that form, authorized it's use in official matters, and who used it, shall be fined. But it isn't that the cause of the accident.

Eventually it can be a hint to find the proper cause: maybe someone calculated the resistance with the wrong factors. If there was a calculation involved, but I'd be very surprised if.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 08:55 PM   #9473
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I think the truck driver is at fault here too. An experienced truck driver can notice the difference of a few tons in weight, this truck was overloaded by almost 3 times the usual weight.

It's not clear to me if the entire truck weighed 108 tons, or it was loaded with 108 tons (plus the truck's unladen weight). In case of the latter, the load would've been 4 times as much as a regular full load, a typical truckload is some 24-28 tons, combined with 12-16 tons unladen weight, that is a 40 ton gross vehicle weight.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 09:13 PM   #9474
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The complete truck weighed 108t.
That's why he needed an authorization: it was an exceeding load. And the driver knew it.
The only mistake the driver may have done was not to use the bridge in it's middle and with no other traffic from the other direction. I'm not sure he had to do so by specific advise within the procedure of authorization, but it's recomended. And I'm not sure if it would have lasted to prevent the collapse
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Old January 19th, 2017, 09:21 PM   #9475
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This single 108 ton truck was heavier than if there would be two regular 40 ton trucks stopped on the bridge.

The bridge was evidently not designed for such a load. This is also a problem in China, they transport coal in trucks that are too large for them, resulting is severe overloading (100 tons is not uncommon there either). Small bridges are not designed for that, and collapse from time to time in China as well.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 09:24 PM   #9476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I guess the misunderstanding was possible
OK, I see what you mean. However I think no driver or transport organizer would officially declare a hundred tons for a normal semi-truck.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 11:09 PM   #9477
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Quote:
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OK, I see what you mean. However I think no driver or transport organizer would officially declare a hundred tons for a normal semi-truck.
It was a six-axle truck.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 19th, 2017, 11:55 PM   #9478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This single 108 ton truck was heavier than if there would be two regular 40 ton trucks stopped on the bridge.

The bridge was evidently not designed for such a load. This is also a problem in China, they transport coal in trucks that are too large for them, resulting is severe overloading (100 tons is not uncommon there either). Small bridges are not designed for that, and collapse from time to time in China as well.

The bridge was able to withstand that load, but it was completely worn out due to lack of maintainance over years and years.
Every bridge is designed with a triple safety factor, and under strict rules You may use it to overcome normal usage. This affects the bridge, of course, though it shall be maintained more promptly.
In this case, not only maintainance was below any standard, probably no one was really aware how often those over sized loads stressed that bridge.
Least shouldn't be a problem if the structure is observed with a precise schedule: You can verify with stress tests if the deformations stay within specs, and the bearings must be changed when deformed, and irons protected against rust and not exposed to air.

The bridge did this job again and again and again, because in that area were several steelworks and steel-users, until it decided to quit service!
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Old January 21st, 2017, 10:33 AM   #9479
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16 people were killed in a bus crash on A4 near Verona-Est. It was a Hungarian bus with high school students back from a trip in France.

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Old January 21st, 2017, 10:40 AM   #9480
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What was the reason of that tragic accident? Malfunction of the vehicle ?
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