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Old January 24th, 2017, 04:58 PM   #9501
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They do not know yet. The drivers were not tired according to survivals and it seemed that the bus was ok.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 08:38 AM   #9502
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Moved from Lithuania-thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
Feel free to answer this on the Italian thread, of course, but that whole stretch on the A6 between Savona and Mollere is kinda crazy, where the two carriageways have what appears to be little more than a passing relationship with one another for many miles. How did that come to be?
One carriage road, the one with shorter bridges and shorter tunnels, was built first. It was then a 1+1. Later, and with construction technology having been advanced, the another carriage road was built. That time technology allowed longer bridges and longer tunnels, and it came to be profitable to build it in a different alignment altogether.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 09:32 AM   #9503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Moved from Lithuania-thread.



One carriage road, the one with shorter bridges and shorter tunnels, was built first. It was then a 1+1. Later, and with construction technology having been advanced, the another carriage road was built. That time technology allowed longer bridges and longer tunnels, and it came to be profitable to build it in a different alignment altogether.
Not exactly. The first carriageway was three-laned but two-way. Each direction had its own lane and the central lane was for overtaking. Needless to say, this was extremely dangerous and many grave accidents occurred during the years, so much that judges closed down the most dangerous stretch. It reopened only when the central lane was deleted (only by painting over it, so it wasn't really effective). During the 90s the second carriageway was built: there wasn't space near the old one, so a different route was chosen, more direct. The older carriageway was dedicated northbound southbound, the new one runs southbound northbound.

Last edited by g.spinoza; February 2nd, 2017 at 01:19 PM. Reason: corrected error
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 09:37 AM   #9504
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Also A7 has a similar story, all though the old southbound stretch was built as a camion-dedicated strada statale in the 30' and then converted in motorway. It is horrendous and in my opinion deserves an urgent upgrade, not even planned
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 11:26 AM   #9505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
The older carriageway was dedicated northbound, the new one runs southbound.
It doesn't sem to be the case for the whole road, though. In this section the more winding one with the loop is southbound rather than northbound.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 01:17 PM   #9506
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It doesn't sem to be the case for the whole road, though. In this section the more winding one with the loop is southbound rather than northbound.
My mistake, the older one is southbound, with the helix-like curve near Savona.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 02:19 PM   #9507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
My mistake, the older one is southbound, with the helix-like curve near Savona.
That makes sense: in the Millesimo junction, even though it only serves southbound direction (the other one involving "u-turns" relatively far from the actual junction) old ramps for northbound direction can still be clearly seen.

https://www.google.fi/maps/@44.36417.../data=!3m1!1e3
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 05:10 PM   #9508
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Just a little mess
https://www.google.fi/maps/@44.2884597,8.4426258,17.02z
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 05:12 PM   #9509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
That makes sense: in the Millesimo junction, even though it only serves southbound direction (the other one involving "u-turns" relatively far from the actual junction) old ramps for northbound direction can still be clearly seen.

https://www.google.fi/maps/@44.36417.../data=!3m1!1e3
Those ramps are unused for more than 20 years. I hate when those abandoned pieces of infrastructure are just left there, instead of being demolished and the area given back to nature.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 05:13 PM   #9510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
The A6-A10 junction was the last thing to be completed, well into the 2000s.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 05:31 PM   #9511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Italian junctions often become a mess, especially when they involve both tolled and free motorways...
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 05:33 PM   #9512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Italian junctions often become a mess, especially when they involve both tolled and free motorways...
In some places like this one orography and urbanization also play their role.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 05:58 PM   #9513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
My mistake, the older one is southbound, with the helix-like curve near Savona.
Actually, my point was that it looks like it changes depending on the section of the route. In the southern part (that I showed) it is indeed the southbound direction that's on the old route. However, if you look further north it's the northbound direction that's on the old route. I believe the switchover point is here where the southbound direction goes from the new road to the old one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Those ramps are unused for more than 20 years. I hate when those abandoned pieces of infrastructure are just left there, instead of being demolished and the area given back to nature.
Looks like the Naples area has lots of these abandoned or unfinished ramps and interchanges: 1;2;3;4;5
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Last edited by Rebasepoiss; February 2nd, 2017 at 06:11 PM.
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 06:10 PM   #9514
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It's possible but I'm not sure. I didn't find any mention of it anywhere; besides, if you look at streetview you can see in that point the two carriageways are on a viaduct, and on slightly different elevations.

https://www.google.fi/maps/@44.35937...7i13312!8i6656
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 06:57 PM   #9515
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Then again, take a look at the weird angle on that expansion joint...
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 07:30 PM   #9516
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https://www.google.fi/maps/@44.36392...7i13312!8i6656

This is a disused junction on the northbound side. Looks pretty old, given the stoned edge beside the exit ramp...
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Old February 2nd, 2017, 08:07 PM   #9517
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There is old toll both for this disused junction
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 02:56 AM   #9518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I drove this stretch of road SB in late December for the 1st time. Incredible feats of road engineering especially with the tunnel that did 360' and dropped in elevation. At times the other direction of traffic was a few km away.

I ended up driving Turin/Savona when I meant to cut SW to Imperia on non autostrada but we never saw the sign for Imperia on SS28. It was quite windy on that road especially as we approached Savona and then WB towards Monaco/Nice etc.
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 09:19 AM   #9519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
https://www.google.fi/maps/@44.36392...7i13312!8i6656

This is a disused junction on the northbound side. Looks pretty old, given the stoned edge beside the exit ramp...
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There is old toll both for this disused junction
That is such a cool find. I wonder why the old interchange was just abandoned?
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Old February 3rd, 2017, 09:53 AM   #9520
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I think it was abandoned after the second carriageway was built
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