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Old February 5th, 2017, 08:31 PM   #9541
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
It does for foreigners that can easily drive on them without paying.

Autostrade will never start an international dispute to have such low amounts of money.
I really don't think that foreign traffic on, say, A4 generates low amount of money... just look at the trucks.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 08:32 PM   #9542
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Trucks will pay, I guess. Who won't pay are all those cars that come once every 5 years.

Whoever comes on a regular basis cannot avoid the fines, it'll be stopped by police eventually.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 08:35 PM   #9543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Trucks will pay, I guess. Who won't pay are all those cars that come once every 5 years.

Whoever comes on a regular basis cannot avoid the fines, it'll be stopped by police eventually.
I guess that, with that high share of foreign traffic, Autostrade or other players will seek agreements with foreign governments in order to retrieve money... we should study the a36 case to see how much money they are going to get from Swiss motorists
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Old February 5th, 2017, 08:37 PM   #9544
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Yes that's possible. If you go to Switzerland and get a fine, Swiss police will post it to you in Italy because they have access to DfT databases of plates.

But you can just avoid paying it, and avoid going to CH for 5 years.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 08:44 PM   #9545
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Maybe they could require a prepaid account; a vehicle entering a tolled section without such an account would automatically trigger an alarm and could possibly be stopped on the same day.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 08:49 PM   #9546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I forgot to post it earlier, but on January 30th, it opened the new junction of Firenzuola, on A1var Bologna-Florence.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/44.0712/11.2433
What is the time difference between A1 and A1var, and is there any reason on using the slower route, apart from entering/exiting in a certain junction on that route?
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Old February 5th, 2017, 09:18 PM   #9547
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Quote:
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What is the time difference between A1 and A1var, and is there any reason on using the slower route, apart from entering/exiting in a certain junction on that route?
With free flowing traffic on both highways, the new alignment is around 12 minutes faster.

However, there is substantial truck traffic on the new alignment (which is one of the points of building it to begin with). This reduces the maximum practical speed to below 110 km/h, as it happens often in highways with many trucks. Meanwhile, the old alignment is much less trafficked than before, allowing faster speeds than before, when you'd often queue at 60-70 km/h behind a slow car overtaking a convoy of trucks.

I think an equilibrium will be ultimately found. The old highway is rather scenic when empty (e.g., midday Tuesday-Thursday). It is a good option for cars. I myself have not driven there since the new bypass opened, I have a friend who has - several times - and he told me he never imagined he'd see the old highway so lightly trafficked without a closure/incident.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #9548
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The new one is also better in winter, as it's 300 meters lower and has many tunnels, so less snow problems.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:09 PM   #9549
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And being shorter and lower (in altitude) lowers the fuel consumption both for cars and trucks. Less polluting and cheaper drive.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:34 PM   #9550
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Is there any real time electronic signage, warning about possible congestion on either way, before the point of making the choice?
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Old February 5th, 2017, 11:39 PM   #9551
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Yes, there's many overhead real time panels along the A1 south (Firenze) and A1 north (Bologna) before the junction.
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Old February 7th, 2017, 07:16 AM   #9552
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So they will keep two motorways for longer timescale?
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Old February 7th, 2017, 07:57 AM   #9553
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Yes, they will keep two parrarel mototways - A1 and A1var.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 07:56 AM   #9554
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Are both 2x2?
And those strips in the north and in the south where no parallel alternative motorways exist, are they 2x3?

Do they keep it because of capacity at all? I supposed close to Bologna and Firenze would be more traffic. So i just don't get it
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Old February 8th, 2017, 08:06 AM   #9555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belerophon View Post
Are both 2x2?
And those strips in the north and in the south where no parallel alternative motorways exist, are they 2x3?

Do they keep it because of capacity at all? I supposed close to Bologna and Firenze would be more traffic. So i just don't get it
I'd assume that in the mountains trucks slow traffic down too much.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #9556
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Between Firenze and Bologna there are in sequence 3+3, 3+2+2, 2+2+2+2 and 3+3 sectors. Building 1 Lane New tunnels would not be an acceptable solution at all and the old 2x2 freeways was already there.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 01:02 PM   #9557
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13.01.17 - Passante Autostradale Nord di BOLOGNA

13.01.17 : Starting of environmental valuation process by Ministero delle Infrastrtuttre

Project here:

http://www.va.minambiente.it/it-IT/Oggetti/Info/1651

(plans, sections, studies...)
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Old February 8th, 2017, 04:13 PM   #9558
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I really dread this project... it will be years after years of reduced lanes, work zones, men on the road for one of the busiest stretches in Italy's motorway network...
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Old February 8th, 2017, 04:47 PM   #9559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I really dread this project... it will be years after years of reduced lanes, work zones, men on the road for one of the busiest stretches in Italy's motorway network...
This is why they should have stuck to the Passante Nord original project. It was an interesting alternative. Then, they started to realign it and make it more U-shaped, which increased total distance for through traffic


source

I have some ideas for traffic infrastructure in Bologna, like a foothill freeway at the south of the urbanized area, like the one in Messina. A not-so-close friend who lived in Bologna heard me talk in detail about it and described my idea as 'diabolical' though.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 08:40 PM   #9560
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The foothill freeway is not unheard of. There are reasons in favour and other against (high costs, presence of natural parks).
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