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Old February 9th, 2017, 04:06 AM   #9561
Wilhem275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This is why they should have stuck to the Passante Nord original project. It was an interesting alternative. Then, they started to realign it and make it more U-shaped, which increased total distance for through traffic
TBH, I never understood any of those wide North bypasses. WAY too large detours for traffic, and with few actual reasons to go all that way round.

The problem in Bologna is rather simple: you have two crossing itineraries (A1 North to A14 and A1 South to A13 and vv.), which have to share a common 5 km stretch from the airport to A13 junction; which of course turns into a bottleneck.

Give those 5 km some big ass capacity and the trick is done, end of it.
There are no large built up areas in the immediate vicinity of the ROW, it can be even fully doubled with no hassle.

Let's assume all four branches are 2x3 (and they're not), make the common stretch a 2x6. Fvck it, let's make it 2x7, or a 2+3+4+4+3+2 including local lanes.
Double it, take it to 100 m wide, who cares, it's just 5 km. Forget it for the next century.

Too noisy? Encase the whole thing in a tunnel, it will still cost less and be A LOT more efficient than a 35 km detour. Just think about the costs and emissions of 30 extra km imposed to all vehicles...
That mistake was already made with the A4 bypass around Venice.


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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Reversible lanes are such a good idea, it's a shame they are rarely used outside certain countries. No reversible lanes that I know of, for instance, in Italy
There was a 3-lanes bridge with a central reversible lane in Alessandria, since 2009, but it seems now it's back to a 2+1

2009 Street View:
https://www.google.it/maps/@44.91614...sm9mmXWud_6n-w
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Old February 9th, 2017, 10:30 AM   #9562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
The problem in Bologna is rather simple: you have two crossing itineraries (A1 North to A14 and A1 South to A13 and vv.), which have to share a common 5 km stretch from the airport to A13 junction; which of course turns into a bottleneck.

Give those 5 km some big ass capacity and the trick is done, end of it.
There are no large built up areas in the immediate vicinity of the ROW, it can be even fully doubled with no hassle.

Let's assume all four branches are 2x3 (and they're not), make the common stretch a 2x6. Fvck it, let's make it 2x7, or a 2+3+4+4+3+2 including local lanes.
Double it, take it to 100 m wide, who cares, it's just 5 km. Forget it for the next century.
It's not so simple. First, A13 contributes very little to traffic in Bologna. Three directions are the most used: Milan, Florence and Rimini. The problem is that the whole Bologna stretch (some 20 km, not just 5), with 2 lanes per direction (forget about the tangenziale, traffic there is almost exclusively local), collects 4 lanes from milan, 3 from Florence and 3 from Rimini. It is obvious that bottlenecks arise, more so because third dinamic lane is never opened.
I favoured one of the northern passages, as shorter as possible of course.

And I fail to se how A4 in Venice was bad. It's 33 km against 27 of the old stretch, so only 6 more, not 30.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 10:54 AM   #9563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
There was a 3-lanes bridge with a central reversible lane in Alessandria, since 2009, but it seems now it's back to a 2+1

2009 Street View:
https://www.google.it/maps/@44.91614...sm9mmXWud_6n-w
This bridge is probably quite old (1950s or 1960s), when they used to build 3-lanes roads with the middle one for overtaking in both directions.
This design appeared to be very dangerous, so it was abandoned already in the 1970s (A6 Ceva-Savona).
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Old February 9th, 2017, 11:00 AM   #9564
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And I fail to se how A4 in Venice was bad. It's 33 km against 27 of the old stretch, so only 6 more, not 30.
When A4 around Mestre (now A57) was planned, in the late 60s, there was a proposal to build a 2+2+2+2 configuration, like around Bologna. This proposal was scrapped because there was not much traffic at that time. Traffic skyrocketed in the 90s, as with the fall of communism it became the main road towards Eastern Europe (with a lot of truck traffic).
Two projects were proposed: a 9.2km tunnel below the existing motorway (the latter would remain in use for local traffic), or the Passante. They eventually built the latter because it was cheaper.
The tunnel is still in discussion in the context of an hypotetical Mestre-Ravenna motorway, but it will remain just talks for decades.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 01:18 PM   #9565
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Quadro di Unione




Autostrada A14 Bologna-Bari-Taranto - Tratto Bologna Borgo Panigale-Bologna San Lazzaro - Potenziamento in sede del sistema autostradale e tangenziale di Bologna

(sorry for the mistake)
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Old February 9th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #9566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
The problem in Bologna is rather simple: you have two crossing itineraries (A1 North to A14 and A1 South to A13 and vv.), which have to share a common 5 km stretch from the airport to A13 junction; which of course turns into a bottleneck.
It is interesting that with even this huge widening (3+3+3+3 or 4+3+3+4) the interconnection with A13 will stay the same, that means it will stay with just one curvy lane per direction (page 3, Planimetria generale 2/4). True that there is not so much traffic than to A14 south but it is still a bit unambiguous, especially with planned 3+3 widening of A13 from Bologna to the north.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #9567
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Interconnections between motorways in Italy are almost always one-lane only. Notable exception that comes to mind is A1-A14 (three lane eastbound, two lanes westbound) but it is, indeed, an exception.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 04:46 PM   #9568
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Also A1-A1dir north, A1-A24 and A1dir south-A1 AFAIK.

But maybe that's because the A1dir were the actual old alignments of the A1.
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Old February 9th, 2017, 04:53 PM   #9569
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I read that the Bologna project meant also a partial closure for exit 9 San Donato... but from the planimetry it seems that the junction will totally close...
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Old February 11th, 2017, 10:21 PM   #9570
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A provincial road collapses in Abruzzo.

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Old February 19th, 2017, 08:02 PM   #9571
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Are A3 signs already replaced by A2 signs?
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old February 19th, 2017, 08:04 PM   #9572
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There are still A2 signs instead of A1 in some towns in Lazio and Campania regions.

A2 lost its name in 1988.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 09:44 PM   #9573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Are A3 signs already replaced by A2 signs?
No, I travelled from Cosenza to Pizzo today and they've replaced A3 signs by new A3 signs at the junction of Pizzo.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 11:09 PM   #9574
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No, I travelled from Cosenza to Pizzo today and they've replaced A3 signs by new A3 signs at the junction of Pizzo.
How new are those signs? I guess older than December 2016.
That motorway is already numbered A2 on ANAS site.
http://www.stradeanas.it/it/le-strade/la-rete-anas
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 11:24 PM   #9575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
There are still A2 signs instead of A1 in some towns in Lazio and Campania regions.

A2 lost its name in 1988.
A15 Parma-La Spezia is still signposted as E31, although it was renumbered as E33 in 1985. E31 runs between Rotterdam and Ludwigshafen today.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old March 1st, 2017, 05:23 PM   #9576
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A5 Torino - Traforo del Monte Bianco


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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Prima parte
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Old March 1st, 2017, 08:33 PM   #9577
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A2 Motorway - From Cosenza to Lamezia Terme on 12th February, photos taken by me:
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Originally Posted by mistikos View Post
Posto le mie poche foto realizzate oggi, lungo i tratti riasfaltati e non tutte in carr. Sud:

Tratto Rogliano-Altilia
Asfalto nuovo tra il km 275 (dopo l'ADS Rogliano) e il km 278




Nuovo asfalto tra il km 280 (spalla sud dello Stupino) e il km 286 (svincolo di Altilia)







Tratto Falerna-Lamezia Terme
Nuovo asfalto tra il km 305 (subito dopo lo svincolo) e il km 313












Inizio tratto non riasfaltato al km 313


Lotto di Lamezia Terme
Svincolo di Lamezia
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Old March 5th, 2017, 03:45 PM   #9578
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Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina - Seconda parte

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Old March 6th, 2017, 08:36 PM   #9579
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A feasibility study showed the possibility of constructing a road-rail tunnel below Messina strait.
Such a tunnel would be 16 km long (3 km underwater), 200 meters deep, cost around 1.5 billion €, and require 5 years to be built.

http://www.ilsole24ore.com/art/impre...l?uuid=AElvIoi

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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 09:20 PM   #9580
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Norwegians build such tunnels all the time. But not in earthquake zones though.
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