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Old February 11th, 2009, 02:11 AM   #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Other 2 more in Milan on A8 and East bypass (at Agrate... the most 'pointless' barrier ever)
Now I know what you mean, the toll station on the A52. Damn, why did they build it? It makes the Milan ring not function well, when you have to pay for the northeastern part of it.


A question: I see there are bypasses around Italian toll stations, are they for emergency vehicles? How do they prevent other vehicles from using them?

Last edited by Verso; February 11th, 2009 at 02:17 AM.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 11:20 AM   #942
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Now that the traffic is lower, the old A4 motorway through Mestre (now A57) got some absurd speed limits:50/60 km/h isn't really a motorway to me.

read the sign, it's for +3,5t...
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Old February 11th, 2009, 12:48 PM   #943
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Quote:
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Why pointless?
Because it is a barrier that 'splits' the East bypass in two: North A4-South A4

Ok: they wanted to intercept people coming from A4 and entering bypass directly (or viceversa). Then they pay an 'extra' at the barrier for the bypass, many of 'em even don't know it when they get out a highway and think it is normal to find a barrier and pay (they think they pay just for motorway, while actually they even pay for the bypass they're entering)

Unfortunately the barrier is even for the ones who just 'cross' A4 running on the bypass
What happens in the real world? many people not to pay the barrier get out at Agrate and get in at Carugate (or viceversa) congesting the local roads during peaks

That's due to the 'strange' nature of this kind of pay system: it's not a closed system
It's just a point, just one barrier where you pay: if you pass that point you pay, if you don't you don't pay
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Last edited by GENIUS LOCI; February 11th, 2009 at 12:53 PM.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 12:52 PM   #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
A question: I see there are bypasses around Italian toll stations, are they for emergency vehicles?
Yep
Quote:
How do they prevent other vehicles from using them?
There are removing bars... I think they open 'em with a remote control
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Old February 11th, 2009, 04:48 PM   #945
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read the sign, it's for +3,5t...
That's only for the fixed signs. The electronic signs show no weight limit...
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Old February 11th, 2009, 04:49 PM   #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
There are removing bars... I think they open 'em with a remote control
I must get one of these remote controls.

As for the A52 toll station: if they want you to pay for the A52, I think they should put the toll station north of the A4, so they don't interrupt functioning of the ring.

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read the sign, it's for +3,5t...
What about 60 km/h?
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Old February 11th, 2009, 04:54 PM   #947
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both 50 and 60 are dangerous: drivers can easily fall asleep...
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Old February 11th, 2009, 05:00 PM   #948
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And 60 km/h is just on the leftmost lane, you still have the universal speed limit of just 50 km/h on the other two lanes, regardless of your vehicle's weight, so if you don't wanna hold someone back with 60 km/h, you have to move right, where you still have 50 km/h, not 60.

Last edited by Verso; February 11th, 2009 at 05:28 PM.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 05:45 PM   #949
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Considering that the new Mestre bypass is pretty long, did they think of making it just a bit longer and make it run directly in the A13, so that the Milan-Trieste- and Bologna-Venice motorways (as well as Milan-Venice- and Bologna-Trieste motorways) wouldn't share the same path (less traffic)?

Last edited by Verso; February 12th, 2009 at 05:05 PM.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 01:00 PM   #950
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Probably new Mestre-Padova part will get additional 4th lane. And I'm sure that NIMBY-s wouldn't allow parallel motorway.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #951
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Probably new Mestre-Padova part will get additional 4th lane.
Is there really any talk about it? How long would it be (or how long is now the A4 between A13 and A57)? Some 5-6 km?
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Old February 12th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #952
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Quote:
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Is there really any talk about it? How long would it be (or how long is now the A4 between A13 and A57)? Some 5-6 km?
according to Google Earth - 11,5 km
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:11 PM   #953
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according to Google Earth - 11,5 km
Can't be that much. It's 10 km to the Dolo/Mirano exit, which is already on the A57, so it starts even earlier.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:26 PM   #954
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It's about 10-11 km. No, never heard or read any talk about 4th lane and by my experience, it is not much needed for now. Actually I think that new Passante also doesn't need 6 lanes for quite a long time.
However even bypasses of Rome (A1) and Naples (A30) have six lanes, but in my experience they are not needed (yet). More wondering, what will happen occasionally east of Venice, when 5 lanes will merge into just 2.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:33 PM   #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Can't be that much. It's 10 km to the Dolo/Mirano exit, which is already on the A57, so it starts even earlier.
this and this shows that knot is made between Vetrego and Cazzago and GOogle Earth says 10,5 km from that point to A13. new knot is actually just in ex exit Dolo/Mirano.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:46 PM   #956
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Bypasses of Naples have 6 lane with no shoulders, and believe me it needs 20 lanes as it is incredible jammed in rush hours
Unfortunately there is not enough space to enlarge it: it is mostly on viaduct.
It would be useful to build another bypass North of it or at least to 'upgrade' the freeways in its hinterland

About Rome (A1) bypass: there is a project to build a 4th lane, but I agree that 3 lanes are way enough

But GRA (Rome ring) was recently upgraded to 6 lanes (+2 shoulders) for its whole length and it really need it
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:55 PM   #957
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Does anyone have pics of A28? I haven't driven there yet. It seems to be a real motorway (autostrada), but for some reason it's free of charge and has many interchanges.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:58 PM   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Bypasses of Naples have 6 lane with no shoulders, and believe me it needs 20 lanes as it is incredible jammed in rush hours
Unfortunately there is not enough space to enlarge it: it is mostly on viaduct.
It would be useful to build another bypass North of it or at least to 'upgrade' the freeways in its hinterland
Actually I was referring to A30, which takes transit traffic to the south (like new A4 takes transit away from Mestre). A30 is modern and wide motorway, but far from overcrowded. Connection with A3 close to Salerno is, however, quite different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
About Rome (A1) bypass: there is a project to build a 4th lane, but I agree that 3 lanes are way enough
Probably it is more meaningful to upgrade A1 from Rome to Naples to 4th lane than bypass itself (probably will be enough wide for decades).
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Old February 12th, 2009, 08:59 PM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
About Rome (A1) bypass: there is a project to build a 4th lane, but I agree that 3 lanes are way enough
this is absolutely unneccessery. there are motorways that are prior to be upgraded in Italy. last summer A1 was ghostly empty where bypassing Roma (other sections were not empty at all - like everybody went to and from Roma)
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Old February 13th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Bypasses of Naples have 6 lane with no shoulders, and believe me it needs 20 lanes as it is incredible jammed in rush hours
Unfortunately there is not enough space to enlarge it: it is mostly on viaduct.
It would be useful to build another bypass North of it or at least to 'upgrade' the freeways in its hinterland

About Rome (A1) bypass: there is a project to build a 4th lane, but I agree that 3 lanes are way enough

But GRA (Rome ring) was recently upgraded to 6 lanes (+2 shoulders) for its whole length and it really need it
As for the GRA now if they would reconstruct some exits and local roads (viabilitā locale) and expand A24 and maybe increase urban penetration of the other highways they could resolve the rest of the traffic jams. Because certain section even 2x3(+1) just doesn't help when you exit onto roads with stop vehicles. It just starts backing up onto the GRA. That said, the outside lane since being completed has improved but only on the northern part.
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