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Old September 27th, 2017, 11:58 PM   #9861
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Maybe because they don't have Slovenian population.
how about Udine/Videm and Gradisca d'Isonzo/Gradiška na Soči?
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Old September 28th, 2017, 12:16 AM   #9862
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Is A31 definitely halted or someday will arrive to Trento?
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Old September 28th, 2017, 12:49 AM   #9863
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how about Udine/Videm and Gradisca d'Isonzo/Gradiška na Soči?
Gradišče ob Soči
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Old September 28th, 2017, 12:54 AM   #9864
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Gradišče ob Soči
i have croatized it
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Old September 28th, 2017, 05:47 AM   #9865
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Gradišče ob Soči
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i have croatized it
You two are so cute together.
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Old September 28th, 2017, 10:51 AM   #9866
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Is A31 definitely halted or someday will arrive to Trento?
There is a project, in quite advanced stage, to build it up to the Veneto/Trentino border as class A (autostrada). Then Trentino should take care of its extension, probably class B (superstrada) up to Levico/Caldonazzo in Valsugana, but this part is much more blurry...
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Old October 8th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #9867
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A German man, 28 years old, was caught by the Italian police last Thursday on the A22, speeding (a speed of 160 km/h was reported) and driving wrong way for more than 40 km (between Nogarole Rocca and Affi).
When the police managed to stop him, he was speaking unintelligibly and appeard upset, so much that he attacked the doctors at the hospital where he was brought by the police. He calmed down only when his parents came from Munich: it turned out that the man had psychiatric problems and was upset about a heartbreak.
His license was revoked, which is unconceivable to be: how can a man with so grave psychiatric problems have a driving license in the first place?

http://corrieredelveneto.corriere.it...a2b38e52.shtml
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Old October 8th, 2017, 05:32 PM   #9868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
A German man, 28 years old, was caught by the Italian police last Thursday on the A22, speeding (a speed of 160 km/h was reported) and driving wrong way for more than 40 km (between Nogarole Rocca and Affi).
When the police managed to stop him, he was speaking unintelligibly and appeard upset, so much that he attacked the doctors at the hospital where he was brought by the police. He calmed down only when his parents came from Munich: it turned out that the man had psychiatric problems and was upset about a heartbreak.
His license was revoked, which is unconceivable to be: how can a man with so grave psychiatric problems have a driving license in the first place?

http://corrieredelveneto.corriere.it...a2b38e52.shtml

In the same way that he was given a flying patrol to a crazy man working at Germanwings.
It is a German evaluation system, which I would say positive!
Luckily they only use it
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Old October 8th, 2017, 10:29 PM   #9869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
A German man, 28 years old, was caught by the Italian police last Thursday on the A22, speeding (a speed of 160 km/h was reported) and driving wrong way for more than 40 km (between Nogarole Rocca and Affi).
When the police managed to stop him, he was speaking unintelligibly and appeard upset, so much that he attacked the doctors at the hospital where he was brought by the police. He calmed down only when his parents came from Munich: it turned out that the man had psychiatric problems and was upset about a heartbreak.
His license was revoked, which is unconceivable to be: how can a man with so grave psychiatric problems have a driving license in the first place?

http://corrieredelveneto.corriere.it...a2b38e52.shtml
When I did my license they only checked whether I needed glasses or not, nobody cared about my psychiatric health. Moreover, psychiatric problems may arise after one has gotten its license and remain unreported until he needs to renew it.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 07:56 AM   #9870
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When I did my license they only checked whether I needed glasses or not, nobody cared about my psychiatric health. Moreover, psychiatric problems may arise after one has gotten its license and remain unreported until he needs to renew it.
I was under the impression that having psychiatric problems automatically invalidates your license... and if it isn't like that, it should be...
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Old October 9th, 2017, 10:16 AM   #9871
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I was under the impression that having psychiatric problems automatically invalidates your license... and if it isn't like that, it should be...
Germany is a lot more complicated than that.
They try to treat psychiatric problems as just an illness (which is actually is, but there are a lot of unknowns). There is still a lot of stigma towards these people.

It's like you would take away the drivers license of someone suffering from heart problems or cancer. Many psychiatry patients only have acute episodes after which they are perfectly normal.
During these episodes they are not allowed to drive. Also, revoking someone's license without him having done something illegal that would mean this, is not so easy to to here, usually a judge would ask for medical tests and an expertise will be done, to find out if the person really has to be banned from driving.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but this is how they think here...
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Old October 9th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #9872
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Germany is a lot more complicated than that.
They try to treat psychiatric problems as just an illness (which is actually is, but there are a lot of unknowns). There is still a lot of stigma towards these people.

It's like you would take away the drivers license of someone suffering from heart problems or cancer.


Many psychiatry patients only have acute episodes after which they are perfectly normal.
During these episodes they are not allowed to drive. Also, revoking someone's license without him having done something illegal that would mean this, is not so easy to to here, usually a judge would ask for medical tests and an expertise will be done, to find out if the person really has to be banned from driving.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but this is how they think here...
In my opinion, at least for heart problems, they should. If you are at risk of a sudden heart attack, you could lose control of the car and cause accidents.

My girlfriend has some neurologic problems, she's at risk of seizures. She haven't got one in 30 years, but when she applied for her driving license, she had to undergo the judgement of a medical committee that had to gather for cases like hers. After long judgement they gave the "ok go" but reduced the validity of the license from 10 to 5 years...

I think that if she had a more intense history of seizures, she wouldn't be allowed to drive, even though she didn't do anything illegal...
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Old October 9th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #9873
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
In my opinion, at least for heart problems, they should. If you are at risk of a sudden heart attack, you could lose control of the car and cause accidents.

My girlfriend has some neurologic problems, she's at risk of seizures. She haven't got one in 30 years, but when she applied for her driving license, she had to undergo the judgement of a medical committee that had to gather for cases like hers. After long judgement they gave the "ok go" but reduced the validity of the license from 10 to 5 years...

I think that if she had a more intense history of seizures, she wouldn't be allowed to drive, even though she didn't do anything illegal...
It's really similar here if you have seizures. I know from my wife cause she actually did expertises for driving license.

By heart problems I meant for example someone who suffered a heart attack a while ago, but is ok now. Like no more blocked arteries, etc. He has heart problems history, but nothing acute.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 01:21 PM   #9874
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You're all treating "psychiatric problems" like a single disease and it's not like that at all. Plus there are many psychiatric disorders with a prevalence as high as 1 in 10 (such as depression, anxiety or OCD) and that may not have any effect on driving. In fact most psychiatric patients are not at risk of having a psychotic episode (which looks very much like what this German guy had). Even very serious disorders can have little to no effect on everyday life if treated adequately.

I have anxiety and OCD and I know many worse drivers than me and that do not have any psychiatric disorder. I look like a "normal" person, whatever this means, because my disorder is adequately treated. "People with psychiatric problems should not be allowed to drive" is an extremely harmful generalisation that only increases the stigma towards those willing to live a peaceful life with a disorder that's under control.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 01:55 PM   #9875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I was under the impression that having psychiatric problems automatically invalidates your license... and if it isn't like that, it should be...
A person I know has suffered from a severe depression for a period. In that period, even when she was in a psychiatric clinic and she was not even allowed to go out alone (let alone drive), nobody cared about suspending her license.
When she, fortunately, recovered and went back to her normal life (after about a year of psychotherapy), she simply used again her valid license like nothing has happened.
I guess there is no coordination between health care system and the agency that releases licenses.
There are even cases of fraudsters who falsely register themselves as blind or paraplegic to get disability wage and... are caught by police while driving.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 03:01 PM   #9876
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You're all treating "psychiatric problems" like a single disease and it's not like that at all. Plus there are many psychiatric disorders with a prevalence as high as 1 in 10 (such as depression, anxiety or OCD) and that may not have any effect on driving. In fact most psychiatric patients are not at risk of having a psychotic episode (which looks very much like what this German guy had). Even very serious disorders can have little to no effect on everyday life if treated adequately.

I have anxiety and OCD and I know many worse drivers than me and that do not have any psychiatric disorder. I look like a "normal" person, whatever this means, because my disorder is adequately treated. "People with psychiatric problems should not be allowed to drive" is an extremely harmful generalisation that only increases the stigma towards those willing to live a peaceful life with a disorder that's under control.
Excuse me, but a psychiatric problem that makes you drive 40 km wrong way on a motorway is incompatible with a driving license.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #9877
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Excuse me, but a psychiatric problem that makes you drive 40 km wrong way on a motorway is incompatible with a driving license.
It's not the psychiatric problem, you can't predict 100% when or if someone will suffer some manic attack or something. Not even for healthy individuals. The same if someone will suffer a stroke or a heart attack.

You have to draw a line somewhere, but is that line for every mentally ill person?
Germans did that beginning of the 20. century by euthanizing disabled and mentally ill people...
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Old October 9th, 2017, 03:27 PM   #9878
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In the Netherlands the debate frequently flares up if there is yet another elderly driver caught going the wrong way on the motorway. Evidently it is difficult to establish if a person is fit to drive. A checkup is only a brief moment which doesn't necessary shows all symptons.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #9879
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It's not the psychiatric problem, you can't predict 100% when or if someone will suffer some manic attack or something. Not even for healthy individuals. The same if someone will suffer a stroke or a heart attack.

You have to draw a line somewhere, but is that line for every mentally ill person?
Germans did that beginning of the 20. century by euthanizing disabled and mentally ill people...
I fail to see how euthanasia and revoking a license can compare...

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In the Netherlands the debate frequently flares up if there is yet another elderly driver caught going the wrong way on the motorway. Evidently it is difficult to establish if a person is fit to drive. A checkup is only a brief moment which doesn't necessary shows all symptons.
My understanding is that a driving license is not a human right, but a privilege. For me it's better to be on the safe side, that is revoking a license to someone healthy for excess of safety, than issuing one to someone who is at risk.
My - very personal - 2 cents.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 03:37 PM   #9880
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I fail to see how euthanasia and revoking a license can compare...
Was an example of how mental illness was dealt with in the past. Trust me, the stigma against them is still present, and nobody is safe from not having such problems (from mild depression to more severe problems). Hopefully science will progress and we will get more answers about the brain.

Quote:
My understanding is that a driving license is not a human right, but a privilege. For me it's better to be on the safe side, that is revoking a license to someone healthy for excess of safety, than issuing one to someone who is at risk.
My - very personal - 2 cents.
To be 100% on the safe side we should ban driving completely .
But on a serious note, politicians are super ignorant about mental illness and to an extent, society too. They put all of them in a box, there is no education regarding this.
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