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Old October 9th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #9881
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
you can't predict 100% when or if someone will suffer some manic attack or something. Not even for healthy individuals. The same if someone will suffer a stroke or a heart attack.
I agree.

An example from today. A German court has decided that a drunk driver who almost killed a pedestrian will be jailed for 5 1/2 years because of attempted murder. He drove 70km/h on an urban street and escaped afterwards. The 77 years old man is totally paralyzed now, can only move his eyes. Source (German only).

Should every person lose the driving license who ever drove a car being drunk?
Should every person lose the driving license who has ever been drunk?

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Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
To be 100% on the safe side we should ban driving completely .
Exactly!
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Old October 9th, 2017, 05:22 PM   #9882
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Sorry for one more OT post...

I think that depression is more accepted as an illness in Germany and there is more public discussion about depression than in many other countries.

I often listen to the radio and there are sometimes interesting interviews with depressed people talking about their fate (e.g. an author) or with psychologists. The big question is "where depression begins" (as cinxxx wrote, where is the limit/border). Even lovesickness is a minor kind of depression.

Should every person lose the driving license who ever had lovesickness?
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Old October 9th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #9883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I agree.

An example from today. A German court has decided that a drunk driver who almost killed a pedestrian will be jailed for 5 1/2 years because of attempted murder. He drove 70km/h on an urban street and escaped afterwards. The 77 years old man is totally paralyzed now, can only move his eyes. Source (German only).

Should every person lose the driving license who ever drove a car being drunk?
Should every person lose the driving license who has ever been drunk?
If someone kills or severely harms someone in the process, you bet your ass he should!!
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Old October 9th, 2017, 06:06 PM   #9884
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If someone kills or severely harms someone in the process, you bet your ass he should!!
Of course, but should it happen in advance? I don't think so...
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Old October 9th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #9885
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Of course, but should it happen in advance? I don't think so...
I don't know. Maybe confiscate his vehicle would be more effective..
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Old October 9th, 2017, 06:54 PM   #9886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
My understanding is that a driving license is not a human right, but a privilege. For me it's better to be on the safe side, that is revoking a license to someone healthy for excess of safety, than issuing one to someone who is at risk.
How do you define who is at risk? Preventing people from driving when they are experiencing a disorder that makes them unfit for driving sounds good in theory but how do you identify a person before they start showing symptoms? And even if they are diagnosed, if having a mental illness at one point in their lives automatically disqualified people from driving, you would have to revoke many more driving licences than you might imagine, to the point where it would have a significant impact on people's livelihoods and the economy, not to mention the stigma. A significant share of the population, perhaps even you, will fit the criteria for a mental illness at a point in their lives.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 07:05 PM   #9887
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How do you define who is at risk? Preventing people from driving when they are experiencing a disorder that makes them unfit for driving sounds good in theory but how do you identify a person before they start showing symptoms?
I have no idea, I'm not a doctor.

Quote:
And even if they are diagnosed, if having a mental illness at one point in their lives automatically disqualified people from driving, you would have to revoke many more driving licences than you might imagine,
to the point where it would have a significant impact on people's livelihoods and the economy, not to mention the stigma. A significant share of the population, perhaps even you, will fit the criteria for a mental illness at a point in their lives.
That's perfectly ok with me.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 07:11 PM   #9888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
It's not the psychiatric problem, you can't predict 100% when or if someone will suffer some manic attack or something. Not even for healthy individuals. The same if someone will suffer a stroke or a heart attack.

You have to draw a line somewhere, but is that line for every mentally ill person?
Germans did that beginning of the 20. century by euthanizing disabled and mentally ill people...
Exactly, there's always a first time when someone shows the signs of their mental disease. Maybe that German guy had never do anything dangerous before his 40-km wrong-way drive.
There are many people who commit brutal murders or violence with no reason and everyone get surprised because "he looked a so nice person...", because their mental issues remained unnoticed until then.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 07:17 PM   #9889
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Exactly, there's always a first time when someone shows the signs of their mental disease. Maybe that German guy had never do anything dangerous before his 40-km wrong-way drive.
Bear in mind that this guy was already diagnosed with mental disease, so much that the parents had doctor's papers to prove it...

Quote:
There are many people who commit brutal murders or violence with no reason and everyone get surprised because "he looked a so nice person...", because their mental issues remained unnoticed until then.
That's only because nobody pays any attention... especially the neighbours
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Old October 9th, 2017, 07:27 PM   #9890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Bear in mind that this guy was already diagnosed with mental disease, so much that the parents had doctor's papers to prove it...
Is it known exactly what kind of illness he had? Because you know, not every such illness makes you go out and drive on the wrong way. Had he been suicidal, we can be sure that he would have rammed his car into ongoing traffic...
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Old October 9th, 2017, 08:05 PM   #9891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
There are many people who commit brutal murders or violence with no reason and everyone get surprised because "he looked a so nice person...", because their mental issues remained unnoticed until then.
Being mentally insane is not a necessary condition to commit murders or brutal acts of violence
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Old October 9th, 2017, 09:25 PM   #9892
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In Italy if you are not healthy do not sell a firearm!
And in germany? I'm curious :-)
Besides the driving license they would also sell a weapon, even if they knew they had mental problems?
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Old October 9th, 2017, 09:28 PM   #9893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intersezioni View Post
Besides the driving license they would also sell a weapon, even if they knew they had mental problems?
Cars can be used as weapons...
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Old October 9th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #9894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
That's perfectly ok with me.
That means, your girlfriend had never had a chance to get a driver license!
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Old October 9th, 2017, 09:39 PM   #9895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
That means, your girlfriend had never had a chance to get a driver license!
At least she was evaluated by a professional team.
If she wouldnt' be allowed to drive, I can understand.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 10:47 PM   #9896
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Old October 10th, 2017, 05:05 PM   #9897
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What is the difference between a 'valico' and a 'passo'?
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Old October 10th, 2017, 05:33 PM   #9898
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"Valico", "passo", "sella", also "colle": basically they're all synonyms

"Passo" is definitely the most common word.

"Colle" is used especially in western Alps and therefore one might consider it a rather "local" word, but the related verb "scollinare" (to reach the highest point on a mountain route and to be about to begin the downhill part) is universal.
"Colle" means also hill.

"Sella" literally means saddle.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 08:57 PM   #9899
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What is the difference between a 'valico' and a 'passo'?
I think they are not completely synonyms, you can use "valico" also for tunnels, in general it has more the sense of "going to the other side" not necessarily on a mountain saddle.
You can say "galleria di valico", meaning a tunnel that underpasses a watershed, but I've never heard of a "galleria di passo".

But nantro is right, some passes are known with "valico" some others with "passo", and it's not even depending on zones: in central Italy there are "Valico di Fossato" and "Passo della Scheggia", very close one another.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 01:37 PM   #9900
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The first "Telepass-only" exit in Italy is about to open on the A1, between Casalecchio di Reno and Sasso Marconi (Bologna suburbs). If I understood correctly it will be a semi-junction (only entrance from and exit to Bologna):





You can see the Telepass-only gates and no other gates.
The exit is expected to open around Christmas.
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