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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:17 PM   #9961
g.spinoza
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Starting on January 2018 as a pilot project, and on February as a service for all the customers, Italian TELEPASS will be interoperative with toll booths and barriers in France, Spain and Portugal.

The service will cost an additional 2,40 € per month - but only for months during which you actually used the service abroad.
To start using the new service, the user will just have to go to a "Punto Blu" (motorway infopoints) where a new multi-standard device will be given in exchange for the old one.

For trucks, a similar service called TELEPASS EU - working in France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium (Liefkenshoek Tunnel), Poland (A4 Krakow-Katowize) and Austria - is already in operation since 2016.

http://www.motorbox.com/auto/magazin...gna-portogallo
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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:49 PM   #9962
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€ 2.50 is what they charge me for the AREA transponder in the months that I use it.

It appears that Europe is slowly getting more organized with interoperable electronic tolling systems. You can use the EasyGo service in Scandinavia and there are companies that sell transponders that work in France, Spain and Portugal. It only makes sense for the interoperability to include Italy.

Previous deadlines for EU-wide interoperability were not met. The idea was that any transponder in Europe would work on any toll road in Europe. So you could use Telepass, Autopass, Via Verde or whichever transponder throughout Europe without any hassle.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:53 PM   #9963
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This is something the EU should impose on all member states: a single, brand new, RFID transponder, readable at high speeds. All cars driven in EEA should be fitted with one, maybe they can expand that area to include also peripheral countries outside EEA. All member-states should have an easy collection mechanism for international tolls.

Then give 5 years for toll operators to adjust. All toll stations must have at least one fully operable lane with the new standard.

Postive side-effect: the elimination of physical toll plazas becomes suddenly viable. And parking garages could also adhere in mass to this scheme.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:54 PM   #9964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Starting on January 2018 as a pilot project, and on February as a service for all the customers, Italian TELEPASS will be interoperative with toll booths and barriers in France, Spain and Portugal.

The service will cost an additional 2,40 € per month - but only for months during which you actually used the service abroad.
To start using the new service, the user will just have to go to a "Punto Blu" (motorway infopoints) where a new multi-standard device will be given in exchange for the old one.

For trucks, a similar service called TELEPASS EU - working in France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium (Liefkenshoek Tunnel), Poland (A4 Krakow-Katowize) and Austria - is already in operation since 2016.

http://www.motorbox.com/auto/magazin...gna-portogallo
It's the first stem towards the implementation of an EU-wide tolling system, well done!
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 08:07 PM   #9965
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Some U.S. toll road agencies use RFID stickers (passive tags) that do not require a battery. They cost less than a dollar in some states.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 11:40 PM   #9966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This is something the EU should impose on all member states: a single, brand new, RFID transponder, readable at high speeds. All cars driven in EEA should be fitted with one, maybe they can expand that area to include also peripheral countries outside EEA. All member-states should have an easy collection mechanism for international tolls.

Then give 5 years for toll operators to adjust. All toll stations must have at least one fully operable lane with the new standard.

Postive side-effect: the elimination of physical toll plazas becomes suddenly viable. And parking garages could also adhere in mass to this scheme.
I guess it would make sense to make it part of homologation and force it to be build into cars.

Then you could pay when you are doing the yearly registration.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 01:00 AM   #9967
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Transponders are dirty cheap and would not cost more than € 10 or € 15 per car. Their batteries easily years without replacement.

The transmitter boxes in Italy, France and Spain were really groundbreaking in the 1990s, when they were introduced. But technology has caught up and cheaper solutions exist.

Now imagine how much money would Italian authorities save by not having to build overcomplicated junctions which are only complicated because of the need to place toll booths (let alone the space taken by toll plazas which might be redeveloped into massive rest stops/truck stops - which are badly needed).
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Old December 15th, 2017, 09:34 AM   #9968
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I would even say "remove all transponders and use register plate recognition" as this technology is now pretty ripe. It works very well in Hungary. I noticed here in Slovenia that even a local supermarket decided to use videorecognition for allowing their customers to park for a limited time and it appears to work pretty well.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 10:56 AM   #9969
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Quote:
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I would even say "remove all transponders and use register plate recognition" as this technology is now pretty ripe. It works very well in Hungary. I noticed here in Slovenia that even a local supermarket decided to use videorecognition for allowing their customers to park for a limited time and it appears to work pretty well.
I would agree, in principle, to use plate recognition for European tolling on one condition: a single European registry of vehicles. As for now there are too many risks of plate collisions (two cars having the "same" plate). For instance, new French plates have the exact same layout as Italian ones.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:16 AM   #9970
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They have the dashes in between.

AA-000-AA is different from AA 000AA.

Albanian plates are the same as Italian ones, though.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #9971
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They have the dashes in between.

AA-000-AA is different from AA 000AA.

Albanian plates are the same as Italian ones, though.
I know, but an automatic system may be capable to accomodate only numbers and letters. And, quite frankly, the dashes in French plates are quite insignificant:
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:24 AM   #9972
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Well yes. But if it was to be built a system for that, I guess they will think it through to avoid these mismatches.

Also there are a bunch of countries with plates like AAA BBB: Sweden Finland the Baltic countries and so on.

I guess there will be many more problems there.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:30 AM   #9973
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Well yes. But if it was to be built a system for that, I guess they will think it through to avoid these mismatches.

Also there are a bunch of countries with plates like AAA BBB: Sweden Finland the Baltic countries and so on.

I guess there will be many more problems there.
I agree. But such a system would have to be retro-compatible with all kinds of past license layouts. I think that a universal transponder is far more feasible and cheaper to implement.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 11:47 AM   #9974
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I would agree, in principle, to use plate recognition for European tolling on one condition: a single European registry of vehicles. As for now there are too many risks of plate collisions (two cars having the "same" plate). For instance, new French plates have the exact same layout as Italian ones.
In Hungary that works very good - I think it is not just a simple letter&number checking but also layout and design.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 12:20 PM   #9975
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Well, to be honest, I received a fine from France a couple of months ago, with my italian license plate.

It means that they can easily distinguish between the two.

Maybe they can read the country code on the left blue EU bar? Dunno.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 12:26 PM   #9976
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Maybe some of you quite underestimate possibilities of video recognition. Technology has improved so much in last decade that separating the same number on Lithuanian or Hungarian plates (that are probably the most similar register plates in EU) should be almost trivial task.
Just look at your smartphone and try to install some software that recognizes text from live picture. You would be amazed what your phone can do that was only 10 years ago almost science fiction.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #9977
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Maybe some of you quite underestimate possibilities of video recognition. Technology has improved so much in last decade that separating the same number on Lithuanian or Hungarian plates (that are probably the most similar register plates in EU) should be almost trivial task.
Just look at your smartphone and try to install some software that recognizes text from live picture. You would be amazed what your phone can do that was only 10 years ago almost science fiction.
Maybe you're right, but in Spain I was trying to access a parking lot which worked by plate recognition and didn't manage to. Later I was told that the camera misread a D as a B...

But that was in 2011, maybe it has improved since.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 12:47 PM   #9978
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I agree. But such a system would have to be retro-compatible with all kinds of past license layouts. I think that a universal transponder is far more feasible and cheaper to implement.
Most European countries have a wide array of plates for different types of vehiles: police, military, diplomatic, taxi, temporary, etc..., plus all kinds of obsolete plates that are still valid.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 12:54 PM   #9979
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I believe there has to be some database of all valid plates and that database shouldn't be too big. There are hundreds of different plate types in USA (some of them are very colorful) and still all are controlled and successfully recognised on different toll sections all over USA.

Also even with video recognition you still need flying patrols.
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Old December 15th, 2017, 01:01 PM   #9980
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Moreover, even if a small percentage of vehicles with special plates won't be tolled, the profit generated by removal of toll booths may still be positive.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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