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Old January 9th, 2018, 03:25 PM   #10021
italystf
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If you drive from A4 to SS434 in Verona, you have to do this stupid detour through local streets.

https://www.google.it/maps/dir/Milan...45.0698118!3e0
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Old January 9th, 2018, 05:48 PM   #10022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
If you drive from A4 to SS434 in Verona, you have to do this stupid detour through local streets.
This is slightly longer but avoids local streets.

https://www.google.it/maps/dir/Milan...45.0698118!3e0
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Old January 9th, 2018, 05:53 PM   #10023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
This is slightly longer but avoids local streets.

https://www.google.it/maps/dir/Milan...45.0698118!3e0
Openstreetmaps recommends this other itinerary. It's not longer, and it runs on slightly less local streets.

https://www.google.it/maps/dir/Milan...45.0698118!3e0
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Old January 9th, 2018, 08:02 PM   #10024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
If you drive from A4 to SS434 in Verona, you have to do this stupid detour through local streets.

https://www.google.it/maps/dir/Milan...45.0698118!3e0
The Junction used in this case are pretty new!
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Openstreetmaps recommends this other itinerary. It's not longer, and it runs on slightly less local streets.

https://www.google.it/maps/dir/Milan...45.0698118!3e0
This was the old itinerary before the opening of the new exit on Verona's Southern bypass
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Old January 11th, 2018, 12:12 PM   #10025
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A feasibility study on rerouting A22 in a tunnel to avoid Bolzano area has been commissioned. The cities of Bolzano, Laives and Vadena will be affected, but up to now there have been only informal talks.

http://www.stradeeautostrade.it/noti...laives-vadena/
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Old January 11th, 2018, 03:41 PM   #10026
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How much need is there for that project? On a map A22 slices Bolzano in two, but in reality the motorway runs across an industrial area, separated from residential areas by the river.

It would make sense for a tunnel to be prepared for 2x3 lanes. Make it 2x2 with shoulders wide enough so that they can be turned into a third lane if the decision is made to six-lane A22. There have been talks about it but it was considered too expensive. On the other hand you'll never know what will happen 20 years in the future.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 03:56 PM   #10027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
How much need is there for that project? On a map A22 slices Bolzano in two, but in reality the motorway runs across an industrial area, separated from residential areas by the river.
They claim it's for air quality reasons.
Despite being a mountain town, Bolzano sits in a very unfavourable position, being completely surronded by mountains: in summer it is almost always among the hottest cities in the country, and pollution tend to remain for long periods of time.

Quote:
It would make sense for a tunnel to be prepared for 2x3 lanes. Make it 2x2 with shoulders wide enough so that they can be turned into a third lane if the decision is made to six-lane A22. There have been talks about it but it was considered too expensive. On the other hand you'll never know what will happen 20 years in the future.
AFAIK, third lane is only going to be built between Modena and Verona, and there were some talks to extend it to Trento. Bolzano was never in for the third lane, so I guess the tunnel it's going to be 2x2. Besides, the stretch north of Bolzano will never ever be enlarged, so what's the point.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 07:42 PM   #10028
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https://www.lok-report.de/news/europ...nda-bozen.html

Quote:
Mit der geplanten Verlegung der A22 in den Berg können wir selbst bei steigendem Verkehr die Feinstaub- und Stickstoffbelastung drastisch reduzieren, die dritte dynamische Spur verwirklichen,
We can dramatically reduce PM and N pollution with the realigned A22 into the mountain even if traffic volumes are increasing and we can realize a third dynamic lane
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:05 AM   #10029
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In report it says that they plan to invest 3 billion euro into infrastructure around Bolzano (probably some tunnels beside A22 are included too - seen in OSM-Humanitarian layer). This amount is probably large enough for at least 30 km of tunnels
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Old January 14th, 2018, 02:06 AM   #10030
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[I] Italy | road infrastructure • strade e autostrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by brick84 View Post
A2 Salerno-Reggio Calabria



Why many Italian drivers use center line while the right one is empty? And is overtaking from the right side permitted?
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Old January 14th, 2018, 10:04 AM   #10031
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Why many Italian drivers use center line while the right one is empty? And is overtaking from the right side permitted?
Until very recently (mid-2000s) the rightmost lane was called "slow vehicles lane" and you were allowed to skip it and cruise and the central lane if you were faster than a certain speed. Now they changed it and the rightmost lane is called "normal cruise" so you are supposed to drive there if there are no vehicles you want to pass. Many people don't know that - especially older people - while many other know but ignore it because they feel shame in cruising in the "slow lane" ("I'm not slow!"). Many others just follow what others are doing and don't even care.

In an attempt at rationalizing lane usage, they say now you can "slip" on the right lane if someone is using improperly the central lane: that doesn't mean "overpass", which involves changing lanes. But if you are cruising in the rightmost lane, and someone is slower in the central one, you are allowed to pass him on the right without having to work your way on the leftmost lane then going back to the rightmost one.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 10:30 AM   #10032
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In reality this thing officially changed with the adoption of the "new" Highway Code in 1992... It is a misconception, because, also with the "old" highway code, the use of the lanes was similar. Originally, there weren't so much 3-lanes (or plus) motorways in Italy, and the right lane was a "slow vehicles lane" only with specifical signs. If that signs there wasn't, the right lane was to use like a normal lane.
I remember a old article on an italian magazine ("Quattroruote") with this title: "3-lanes motorways: why Italians don't know how to use them"
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Old January 15th, 2018, 10:43 AM   #10033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn-mann View Post
In reality this thing officially changed with the adoption of the "new" Highway Code in 1992...
Highway code 1992, article 143, comma 6:
Quote:
[6. Sulle strade di tipo A) e B) di cui all'art. 2, comma 2, a tre o più corsie per senso di marcia, la corsia di destra è riservata ai veicoli lenti.
Quote:
On highways type A (autostrade) and B (superstrade), with three or more lanes per direction, the righmost lane is reserved for slow vehicles.
This was changed by decree law #9 on 15 January 2002.

http://www.aci.it/index.php?id=697
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Old January 15th, 2018, 02:21 PM   #10034
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"Slow vehicles" has a changing meaning. What does "slow" mean? Nothing, there is no definition that tells exactly what it means, but in the mind of the italian car driver the only idea is:"I'm not slow, the others are slow"
But if You are alone on the motorway, or other vehicles are faster than You, You are, as a matter of fact, a "slow vehicle", and You have to stay in the right lane.

Section no.5 of the same §143 tells:
Quote:
"5. Salvo diversa segnalazione, quando una carreggiata è a due o più corsie per senso di marcia, si deve percorrere la corsia più libera a destra; la corsia o le corsie di sinistra sono riservate al sorpasso."
Quote:
"5. in case of roads with carriageways having 2 or more lanes per direction, it has to be used the most right and free one, exept different signalling; the left lane(s) are reserved for overtaking"
This section no.5 in connetion with the cancelled no.6 were in apparent contraddiction, so no.6 was cancelled because meaningless.

This may be the reason for some persistent wrong habits, but since 2002 it was sufficiently explained, and also ourdays the message:"use the most right lane, if free", is often performed on variable message screens. So no excuses can be given to those who don't comply.

On the other hand, as section no.6 was valid, passing a car slower than yours on a lane left of You, would have ment that You aren't a "slow vehicle" so You were not supposed to be on the right lane.

This was a logical constraint which made a "passing by" on the right lane impossible, until section no.6 was cancelled.
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Old January 15th, 2018, 11:59 PM   #10035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pccvspw999 View Post
"Slow vehicles" has a changing meaning. What does "slow" mean? Nothing, there is no definition that tells exactly what it means, but in the mind of the italian car driver the only idea is:"I'm not slow, the others are slow"
But if You are alone on the motorway, or other vehicles are faster than You, You are, as a matter of fact, a "slow vehicle", and You have to stay in the right lane.

Section no.5 of the same §143 tells:



This section no.5 in connetion with the cancelled no.6 were in apparent contraddiction, so no.6 was cancelled because meaningless.

This may be the reason for some persistent wrong habits, but since 2002 it was sufficiently explained, and also ourdays the message:"use the most right lane, if free", is often performed on variable message screens. So no excuses can be given to those who don't comply.

On the other hand, as section no.6 was valid, passing a car slower than yours on a lane left of You, would have ment that You aren't a "slow vehicle" so You were not supposed to be on the right lane.

This was a logical constraint which made a "passing by" on the right lane impossible, until section no.6 was cancelled.
I guess by "slow vehicles" they meant buses and trucks... maybe there was a precise definition back then...
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Old January 16th, 2018, 11:04 AM   #10036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Highway code 1992, article 143, comma 6:
This was changed by decree law #9 on 15 January 2002.
http://www.aci.it/index.php?id=697
Ah! You screwed me! I didn't know and I've forgotten that changed!
Very thanks for this improvement of my knowledge!
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Old January 17th, 2018, 03:54 PM   #10037
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A6-E717

I recently travelled southbound from Turin to Savona and then Nice on the autostrada/autoroute.

Does anyone have any background on the construction of this route. The stretch between Cava and Savona with all the tunnels, loops and large distance between the northbound and southbound lanes (and the directions of traffic crossing over one another + looping tunnels to gain/drop elevation) was an engineering masterpiece.

Do you think they would build such a road these days.

As well, the road from Savona-Ventimiglia-Nice was incredible but very prone to high winds (and the setting sun didn't make driving easy).
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Old January 17th, 2018, 04:05 PM   #10038
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That curvy section near Savona originally opened in 1960 as a single carriageway autostrada. It was expanded with a second carriageway in two phases: Savona - Altare in 1976 and Altare - Priero in 1995.
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Old January 17th, 2018, 05:23 PM   #10039
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A6 nowadays would probably have been built more straight, with several long tunnels.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 17th, 2018, 06:03 PM   #10040
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In 1960s the engineers built A6 as best they could
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