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Old October 18th, 2009, 07:59 PM   #1441
Pfosten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Thank God they didn't have this attitude in the 1950's - 1980's. Otherwise Italy would've had very few Autostradas now...
that's not right
imagine the variante di valico between firenze and bologna on a1.
a 60 km new autostrada with long tunnels (the longest arround 12km)
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Old October 18th, 2009, 11:55 PM   #1442
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The longest tunnel of the Variante di Valico is 8,5 km, but there are several other shorter (up to ~3 km).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variante_di_Valico
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Old October 19th, 2009, 02:40 PM   #1443
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oh, that's right
sorry for the wrong information
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Old October 20th, 2009, 10:21 AM   #1444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Thank God they didn't have this attitude in the 1950's - 1980's. Otherwise Italy would've had very few Autostradas now...
If at that time they would build autostradas with today's technical standards, they also wouldn't build many.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 11:25 AM   #1445
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Explain your thought please.

In my opinion we can't compare the actual cost and technic with that in the past.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 07:49 PM   #1446
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In the past technical standards were less costly to implement (compare current A1 between Bologna and Firenze and new Variante del Valico or old A3 vs. new A3). That why were easier to do and it was easier to decide for extensive motorway programme (of course this is true for whole Europe, not just Italy)
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Old October 21st, 2009, 08:43 PM   #1447
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Also, construction costs of motorways went up much faster than inflation. You can now construct 1 km of standard motorway for the same amount of 4 kms in the 60's and 70's, inflation adjusted.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 11:48 PM   #1448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Also, construction costs of motorways went up much faster than inflation. You can now construct 1 km of standard motorway for the same amount of 4 kms in the 60's and 70's, inflation adjusted.
And let's not forget constant upgrades that quietly went on and on through the decades. My A22 in the 70's had just a wide grass median with no crash barriers or fog guidance system either ....
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 05:46 PM   #1449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
In the past technical standards were less costly to implement (compare current A1 between Bologna and Firenze and new Variante del Valico or old A3 vs. new A3). That why were easier to do and it was easier to decide for extensive motorway programme (of course this is true for whole Europe, not just Italy)
I don't know... see what happened in last 15/20 years in countries like France or Spain (or what is happening now in East Europe countries)
Till '80s they hadn't wide webs in comparison to other European countries, like Germany or Italy, for istance
They decided to dramatically increase the motorway web in few years investing resources; and they now have diffused webs with 'nowadays' standards

Ok, the nature of their territory didn't oblidge 'em to build as many tunnels and viaducts as Italy did.

Anyway I think it could be possible to build a web like the current one in Italy with nowadays standards and in relatively few years... if you got the money.
In '60s and '70s Italy spent a large amount of money on road infrastructure.
Now we have a 'monster' debt (partly due to the spending of those years) and find the money for infrastructures is harder
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 10:09 PM   #1450
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Guess a good upgrade of a few motorways would be better value for money than that bridge to Sicily.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #1451
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Quote:
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Guess a good upgrade of a few motorways would be better value for money than that bridge to Sicily.
for sure.

by the way.
has someone pictures of the e45 between terni and ravenna?
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Old October 24th, 2009, 09:08 PM   #1452
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Guess a good upgrade of a few motorways would be better value for money than that bridge to Sicily.
What is the status of that bridge? I thought that Berlusconi wants to build that bridge, or is it still a bridge too far?
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Old October 24th, 2009, 10:08 PM   #1453
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Quote:
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has someone pictures of the e45 between terni and ravenna?
i have some between Perugia and Todi
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Old October 24th, 2009, 10:18 PM   #1454
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What is the status of that bridge? I thought that Berlusconi wants to build that bridge, or is it still a bridge too far?
Construction will start in december.
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Old October 25th, 2009, 01:53 PM   #1455
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Number: SR14 (Strada Regionale 14). In the past SS14bis (Strada statale 14 bis)

Name: Via Martiri della Libertà

Category: I dont' know. By the way or "Strada extraurbana secondaria (categoria C)" or "Strada urbana di scorrimento" (categoria D).








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Old October 25th, 2009, 07:02 PM   #1456
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A4-Passante di Mestre




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Old October 26th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #1457
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Hard shoulder on the left? I haven't noticed that on the Passante.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 12:33 AM   #1458
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I did noticed. It's on the short part only and it does not function as proper hard shoulder, at least stopping there is not allowed.
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Old October 26th, 2009, 12:38 AM   #1459
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Quote:
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Hard shoulder on the left? I haven't noticed that on the Passante.

It is only in the "trench"
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Old October 26th, 2009, 08:30 PM   #1460
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Artificial tunnel on flat terrain are common today (not just in Italy). Just look at the SS 336 motorway to Milan Malpensa airport:

- near a village, but still in the middle of fields
- another tunnel (in this old photo still under construction)
- a beatyful tunnel in the middle of nowhere
- again, again and again...
- here the motorway cuts the town, but without tunnel! the maybe only place on the motorway where a tunnel would have been a good idea, it hasn't been built
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