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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:00 PM   #1621
ChrisZwolle
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The "tutor" section control is operational on many Italian Autostrades, so I'd keep to the speed limit if I were you. Besides that, 130 km/h is a very reasonable speed limit.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:08 PM   #1622
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Quote:
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The "tutor" section control is operational on many Italian Autostrades ...
Chris, could you explain what "tutor" section control is ?
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:12 PM   #1623
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It measures your average speed over long distances. The Netherlands and Austria also use it to enforce 80 km/h limits on motorways, but Italy uses it on 130 km/h motorways. Approximately 2.500 kilometer of Autostrada is equipped with the "tutor", also called "SICVE" and "SPECS".

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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:26 PM   #1624
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autostrade with tutor:

http://www.sciretti.it/uploaded_imag...pia-741759.jpg
http://www.autostrade.it/assistenza-...ico/tutor.html

cameras are also on the emergency lane. If you go, you draw police attention (the offense is serious).

autostrade with stationary speed traps:


http://www.autostrade.it/assistenza-...initPosAra=3_4

Last edited by lucaf1; June 23rd, 2010 at 11:32 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:43 PM   #1625
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Chris, Lucaf1

many, many thanks
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Old June 24th, 2010, 01:29 AM   #1626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The A9 is already under construction towards the pass road, with opening planned in 2015.
I honestly did not know it, are you sure?
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Old June 24th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #1627
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Yes, I'm sure. See http://www.a9-vs.ch/.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #1628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
good day collegues,

this weekend I will be visiting Italy for my first time.

what is the safe speed I can do on Italian highways not to be caught by police ?

I understand that the speed limit is 130 km/h, but what if I keep 150 km/h ? will I draw police attention ?


what it the most common speed check-points ? non-marked police cars or stationary speed traps ?
You're visiting a country for the first time, you're a guest in these people's land, would it be so horrible to obey their laws and stick to 130km/h?
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Old June 24th, 2010, 12:48 PM   #1629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It measures your average speed over long distances. The Netherlands and Austria also use it to enforce 80 km/h limits on motorways, but Italy uses it on 130 km/h motorways. Approximately 2.500 kilometer of Autostrada is equipped with the "tutor", also called "SICVE" and "SPECS".

I saw some copies of that sign on some "autostrade". A13, for example... (But i can't remember very well)
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Last edited by CNGL; June 25th, 2010 at 01:36 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 04:52 PM   #1630
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In more populated areas of America if you do 150 km/h (93 MPH) you will certainly be pulled over, and in less populated areas it's still very likely. Speed limits across much of the eastern regions are the equivalent of 105 km/hr (65 MPH) along most Interstate highways, with a handful of Eastern states using a maximum speed of 115 km/hr (70 mph). Speed limits are often 90 (55) in more congested areas. In less populated areas out West, speed limits are often the equivalent of 120 km/hr (75 mph), and very rarely up to 130 (80)

Generally I just don't bother wondering if the speed I'm driving will get me pulled over, and just drive the speed limit, or maybe 3 MPH over.

(And yes, the vast majority of American speed limits are on the 5s - 25, 35, 45, 55, 65.)
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Old June 24th, 2010, 04:58 PM   #1631
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Tutor, honest and effective speed control

I love the Tutor. Let me explain: fixed speed traps, unless related to a specific occurrence like a pedestrian crossing (something that doesn't exist in a highway...) or an unusual sharp curve, are relatively ineffective - people know where they are, feed info in GPS (newer models allows for - illegal - GSM-based dynamic feed of traffic info by drivers, including roadblocks/mobile speed traps).

The Tutor, in other hand, measures average speed over a longer stretch of route (1, 2, 5, 10 and - more rarely 15km). They have OCR reading plates at the beginning and end of the sector, and then they calculate average speed.

They can be used only in stretches where the legal speed is uniform. Alone, Tutor accounted for more than 52% in fatality rate reduction in the main axes: A1/A14/A4.

The effect is that, congestion absent, you see traffic flowing almost at a stationary way in relation to the lanes in your side.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #1632
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Yeah, but with an extension of the swiss A9 it would create a more direct corridor from Milan to Northwestern Europe
Not really. From the Benelux countries and Germany, there is no shorter route than via the Gotthard. Depending on your point of origin in Germany, a more easterly Alpes crossing may be appropriate (typically San Bernardino), but it will never be the Simplon. Briefly put, if your route comes anywhere close to Basel, you would take the Gotthard route and the Simplon does not even come close. The Simplon has always been an East-West route more than a North-South route, a connector between France and Italy more than one to Germany. But that function has become pretty much obsolete in road traffic with the construction of the Mont Blanc tunnel (unlike in rail traffic, where the Simplon is still very important because there is no railway tunnel north of Frejus).

While the Simplon route was given the nice European road number E62, it is actually a pass route that is very poorly tied into the European road network. The Italian side of things is alright, but the Simplon road is poorly connected to France. You would either have to follow the Swiss A9/A1 until Geneva or take a non-motorway from Lausanne to Dijon. If you are in Geneva, the Mont Blanc tunnel would beat a Simplon tunnel easily en route to Milan (for that reason, the route followed by the E62 is a very poor call in the E-numbering system). And an upgrade of the Lausanne - Dijon route would be an expensive project for a shortcut of maybe 30 kilometers to Paris or Calais. Not an interesting investment, I would say.
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Last edited by -Pino-; June 25th, 2010 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Addition
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Old June 25th, 2010, 05:29 PM   #1633
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Milan-Paris

Mont Blanc, 851 km, 8h14min
Gotthard, 909 km, 8h33min
Fréjus, 907 km, 8h43min
Simplon 823 km, 9h20min (today without A9 and with the train shuttle)
Simplon 853 km, 9h23min (today without A9 and via the Pass)

For ViaMichelin the toll is 100 € via the Mont Blanc, 22 € + 28 € swiss vignette via the Gotthard.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #1634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Milan-Paris

Mont Blanc, 851 km, 8h14min
Gotthard, 909 km, 8h33min
Fréjus, 907 km, 8h43min
Simplon 823 km, 9h20min (today without A9 and with the train shuttle)
Simplon 853 km, 9h23min (today without A9 and via the Pass)

For ViaMichelin the toll is 100 € via the Mont Blanc, 22 € + 28 € swiss vignette via the Gotthard.
Don't forget:

St. Bernard, 847 km, 9h02min

Why people usually don't give a damn to St. Bernard tunnel? I'm not complaining about you, it is just that I take a pity this transalpine route is usually neglected.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #1635
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The Great St. Bernard is an additional toll tunnel (one of the few, or even the only in Switzerland), and generally outside main transit routes, and the Simplon has a better alignment for heavy traffic. I don't think the St. Bernard serves more than a regional function. It's quite expensive at € 20,80 for a passenger car. The Great St. Bernard tunnel portals are only slightly lower than the Simplon pass, so there isn't much gain in altitude difference either.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #1636
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The Great St. Bernard is as slow as the Simplon pass but it is tolled. If one wants to pay, then he choose the fastest route, the Mont Blanc. If one wants to save money from tolls, choose the Simplon, if one doesn't want to drive, takes the shuttle for 13 euro.

Quote:
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toll tunnel (one of the few, or even the only in Switzerland)
I know only the Munt la Schera tunnel and the train shuttles.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 01:17 PM   #1637
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Please we can go back to topic?

Well, when I made the trip to Italy, I saw A1 reconstruction between Florence and Bologna. And I liked the tolls, you enter to the autostrada and you pay only when you gets off regardless of the number of autostrade you taken. We made a run from Ventimiglia to Pisa North, and another from Verona to Leghorn (Livorno).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucaf1 View Post
Axx - km - € - €cent/km

[IMG]http://i47.************/17d11e.jpg[/IMG]

(c) Quattroruote febbraio 2010 n° 652
A32 between Torino and Bardonecchia the most expensive autostrada? Try to beat this: A1 between Calenzano and Florence North, €0.60 for a kilometer!!! (And for a bus, I don't know for a car)
And I passed through 3 of the top 5 expensive autostrade, namely A10, A12 and A15.
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Last edited by CNGL; July 5th, 2010 at 09:49 PM.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 02:21 PM   #1638
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According to autostrade.it, the 2 kilometers between Sesto Fiorentino and Firenze Nord are actually free of charge for ordinary cars, so using a bus figure is not representative. Speaking of toll roads, I do indeed prefer closed toll systems over open toll system with a toll station every now and then. I think that they are fairer, as everyone pays rather than only the folks who happen to pass the station. A few roads in Italy do have open systems though. The A32 is one of them, the A8 and A9 are two others.

The Grand St. Bernard finally makes sense for traffic to Turin and Piemonte. From Basel, it is still the quickest route in that direction and it would beat the detour via Geneva and the Mont Blanc. But because the tunnel serves only traffic into Piemonte from the North, its role is much smaller than the roles of the other tunnels.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 03:08 PM   #1639
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I think you confused A1 with A11. A11 is free of toll east of A1 into Florence, as I know.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 04:32 PM   #1640
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The most expensive car trip one could make in Italy without paying a toll in between (e.g., all withing a closed system) is from Ventimiglia to Taranto via Genova, Livorno, Firenze, Napoli and Bari.

Total: € 77,90
Distance: 1.159km
Route: http://autostrade.it/autostrade/rice...oAutostrade=on (OBS: click on "calcolo del pedagio" and a window will show, for any route in Italian autostrade, the exact costs and where you will pay it).

This was not possible until a couple years ago when they finally linked A11 and A12 near Livorno without being necessary to exit and entry a closed system.

Other more expensive routes entirely run on a closed system would be possible if the junctions (or should I say bottlenecks) around Milano (Tangenziale Nord, Ovest ed Este) were not charged as barrier tolls. You can bypass Roma, Napoli e cross around Bologna and (now) Venezia and Firenze, other major highway junctions in Italy, without exiting the closed system, but it is impossible to do that near Milano.

As for me, the longer trip I'd made in a closed system was from Taranto to Milano, it cost € 56 at the time. Nice drive on a cold autumn Sunday, 130 km/h almost all way long (gotta thank the cruise control ).
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