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Old June 27th, 2010, 12:20 PM   #1641
CNGL
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A32 between Torino and Bardonecchia the most expensive autostrada? Try to beat this: A1 between Calenzano and Florence North, €0.60 for a kilometer!!! (And for a bus, I don't know for a car)
Never mind. If A3 between Naples and Salerno is €1.60 of toll regardless where you enter, where you exit, then the sections Naples South toll plaza-Ponticelli and Portici Bellavista-Ercolano are the most expensive. Both are half kilometer long sections, so the cost per kilometer is... €3.20 .
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Old June 27th, 2010, 02:59 PM   #1642
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Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Not really. From the Benelux countries and Germany, there is no shorter route than via the Gotthard. Depending on your point of origin in Germany, a more easterly Alpes crossing may be appropriate (typically San Bernardino), but it will never be the Simplon. Briefly put, if your route comes anywhere close to Basel, you would take the Gotthard route and the Simplon does not even come close. The Simplon has always been an East-West route more than a North-South route, a connector between France and Italy more than one to Germany. But that function has become pretty much obsolete in road traffic with the construction of the Mont Blanc tunnel (unlike in rail traffic, where the Simplon is still very important because there is no railway tunnel north of Frejus).

While the Simplon route was given the nice European road number E62, it is actually a pass route that is very poorly tied into the European road network. The Italian side of things is alright, but the Simplon road is poorly connected to France. You would either have to follow the Swiss A9/A1 until Geneva or take a non-motorway from Lausanne to Dijon. If you are in Geneva, the Mont Blanc tunnel would beat a Simplon tunnel easily en route to Milan (for that reason, the route followed by the E62 is a very poor call in the E-numbering system). And an upgrade of the Lausanne - Dijon route would be an expensive project for a shortcut of maybe 30 kilometers to Paris or Calais. Not an interesting investment, I would say.
Okay, so I would discard the Simplon tunnel. At least for now.
But I have to see the following autostrade:
A12 all the way from Livorno to Civitavecchia. (But there's a superstrada...)
A31 from Rovigo to Trento (THAT would be an autostrada del Valdastico)
A complete Milan North bypass (North of A52, of course. I would number this A4)
An autostrada from Brescia into Val Trompia (to Lumezzane)
A more direct autostrada from Milan to Bresca (This is U/C, right?)
An autostrada from Parma to Mantova (I would number this A15)
An autostrada from Vicenza to the A27, but I'm seeing they built a section as superstrada.
An autostrada from Cremona to Mantova (A21-A22!)
And of course, an autostrada from Ravenna to Venice, over the route of E55.

And thats all according to http://motorways-exitlists.com, assuming that A33 Asti-Cuneo and A18 to Gela is expected to be completed this year, according to the Italian road map I have.

And a question: T1 is the Mont Blanc tunnel, T2 is the Gran San Bernardo tunnel and T4 is the Fréjus tunnel. The question is: What happened to T3? Is there any plans?
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Last edited by CNGL; July 5th, 2010 at 09:47 PM.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 04:01 PM   #1643
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I love the Tutor.
Tutor is different from other section control devices in Europe. It is usually enforced at a reasonable speed limit (130 km/h) while Tutor-equivalents in other countries (UK, Netherlands, Austria) are used to enforce very low speed limits on motorways (80 or 100 km/h). This is a major difference, I think the general public would be much more likely to accept section control like in Italy, than in the other mentioned countries.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 04:02 PM   #1644
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Quote:
A31 from Rovigo to Trento (THAT would be an autostrada del Valdastico)
The southern part is is under construction (but I'm not sure if until Rovigo).

Quote:
A complete Milan North bypass (North of A52, of course. I would number this A4)
The Pedemontana will connect the A8, A9, SS35, SS36 and A51 (see there), then the A52 may be extended to reach the A4 (the SP46 is already partly 2x2).

Quote:
A more direct autostrada from Milan to Bresca (This is U/C, right?)
It is under construction, known as BreBeMi (Brescia-Bergamo-Milano, even if it doesn't pass from Bergamo, but only via its province, and even if it doesn't reach Milan).

Quote:
And a question: T1 is the Mont Blanc tunnel, T2 is the Gran San Bernardo tunnel and T4 is the Fréjus tunnel. The question is: What happened to T3? Is there any plans?
T3 was a 2 km tunnel near Genova.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bargagli-Ferriere_Tunnel

This because the "T" is used to design some new roads classified as motorways, and not long tunnels themselves. The T2 is not the Gran San Bernardo tunnel but a road comprising the main tunnel and part of the access road built with it to replace the SS27. As the Mont Blanc and Fréjus tunnels are reached by A5 and A32 there are no roads numbered T1 and T4 other than the tunnels.

http://maps.google.ch/?ie=UTF8&ll=45...,0.072441&z=14

T3 was a 4 km road, 2 km in tunnel, 2 km at ground level.

http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=d&sourc...,0.072441&z=14
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Old June 27th, 2010, 04:04 PM   #1645
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Project:

A12 all the way from Livorno to Civitavecchia.
A31 from Rovigo to Trento
An autostrada from Brescia into Val Trompia (to Lumezzane)
An autostrada from Parma to Mantova
An autostrada from Cremona to Mantova (A21-A22!)
an autostrada from Ravenna to Venice, over the route of E55.


Quote:
And thats all according to http://motorways-exitlists.com, assuming that A33 Asti-Cuneo and A18 to Gela is expected to be completed this year, according to the Italian road map I have.
No.. More years...

Quote:
And a question: T1 is the Mont Blanc tunnel, T2 is the Gran San Bernardo tunnel and T4 is the Fréjus tunnel. The question is: What happened to T3? Is there any plans?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bargagli-Ferriere_Tunnel
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Old June 27th, 2010, 05:58 PM   #1646
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I saw construction of A31 towards the South in Vicenza. And it's only until Noventa Vicentina, according to my Italian road map. A18 and A33 have been delayed?
And now I saw the tunnel of the SP(ex-SS)225 near Genoa. That was the T3, as you said. But now there's the A12 South of there... Or A12 was there in 1971? I think no...
150 km/h speed limit? I didn't saw any sign with a 150 km/h limitation. I don't know A26, where are supossed to have these signs...

PS: 90 Vicentina? (Because "noventa" is ninety in Spanish)
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Last edited by CNGL; July 5th, 2010 at 09:47 PM.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 06:28 PM   #1647
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The Bargagli-Ferriere Tunnel was built after the Great Saint Bernard and the Mont Blanc tunnels (T2 and T1 respectively even if the second opened one year later) but before the Fréjus (T4) so it received the number T3. But they choose T3 not because of its importance, but because it was a new road, so it needed a new number. Instead of calling it SS123 or SP456 they decided for T3, probably also because it was tolled. When the route was renumbered SS225 the toll was removed.

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PS: 90 Vicentina?
If you wonder about the name (novanta with an A means 90), a lot of places have numbers as names, like Quarto d'Altino (quarto=fourth), Quinto (fifth), Sesto San Giovanni (sesto=sixth), Settimo Torinese (settimo=seventh).
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Old June 27th, 2010, 06:36 PM   #1648
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So Sesto Fiorentino=Florence's 6th
Anyway, I would extend the pedemontana lombarda back to A4, and I would give that number. Current A4 could be numbered A58 instead...
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Last edited by CNGL; July 5th, 2010 at 09:48 PM.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 07:03 PM   #1649
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The A4 can be reached using the SS336 after the Pedemontana.

The A4 is well known with that number, changing it would only create more confusion.

I would rename A4/5 and A4/26 in something like A34, and amybe also the others "fraction" motorways.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 08:05 PM   #1650
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Agree. If I understand the Pedemontana plans correctly, it is not being constructed as a direct link between the A4 and the A9, but as a series of links between existing roads. Even when extended to return to the A4, the route would be one large TOTSO and therefore not appropriate to be replace the existing A4.

Back with some pictures of the Autostrada dei Laghi (A8, A8dir and A26), all taken today. Pictures at full size and located on the map via Panoramio.















































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Old June 27th, 2010, 08:46 PM   #1651
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Main stated goal to build the Pedemontana is not to link A9 and A4 themselves, but to provide an artery that would improve regional traffic that, as from today, has to rely on overused and congested roads leading do Milano or to cross built-up areas from the cities, severely disrupting traffic in the region.

It will be a pleasant drive, though, far more than the urban highway cross north of Milano with its substandard junctions and accesses.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 09:05 PM   #1652
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pedemontana (red new road-blu/red upgrade of ss35)


(C) http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pe...a_lombarda.svg
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Old June 28th, 2010, 11:56 AM   #1653
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It will be a pleasant drive, though, far more than the urban highway cross north of Milano with its substandard junctions and accesses.
Except for the part of course where the Pedemontana follows the SS35, which is as substandard as can be. Having driven that road two weeks ago, I can't see it upgraded to anything close to a proper motorway.

But well, I do believe in the current strategy around Milan, i.e. leave the international and interregional traffic on the existing arteries, but decongest those arteries by having alternatives for the suburban and regional traffic: Brebemi, Pedemontana, TEM. For each of those, I doubt whether a tourist or international driver will ever get to see them, but the fact that they are being constructed is definitely good news for them.
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Old June 28th, 2010, 12:21 PM   #1654
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Only the Pedemontana will be useful for tourists going from the Simplon or the Gotthard to Venice.
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Old June 28th, 2010, 02:36 PM   #1655
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If I was a driver en route from Switzerland to Venice, I'd take the convenience option of following the A8 until Milano Certosa and the A4 from there. One exit only (with the lay-our of Certosa, you could even argue that it's no exit at all when you travel from Switzerland) as opposed to four on the Pedemontana. And no apparent gain in kilometers or time. That being said, if there are reports of congestion on the A4, people will turn off to the Pedemontana. Pretty much the same as people who already know how to use the current SS35 in the event of problems on the A9/A8.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #1656
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Because of the financial crisis there will be from tomorrow:

  1. increase of toll on all autostrade (+ € 0.001 per km)

  2. + € 1 on toll gates linked with some autostrade and RA managed by ANAS:
  • A90 (toll gates: A1dir Roma Nord, A1dir Fiano Romano, A1dir Roma Sud, A24 Roma Est, A24 Lunghezza, A24 Settecamini, A24 Ponte di Nona)
  • A91 (toll gate: A12 Roma ovest)
  • RA2 (toll gates: A16 Avellino est, A30 Salerno-Mercato San Severino)
  • RA3 (toll gate: A1 Firenze Certosa)
  • RA6 (toll gate: A1 Valdichiana)
  • RA8 (toll gate: A13 Ferrara Sud)
  • RA9 (toll gate: A16 Benevento)
  • RA10 (toll gates: A55 Settimo Torinese, A55 Falchera, A55 Bruere)
  • RA11 (toll gate: A14 San Benedetto del Tronto)
  • RA12 (toll gates: A25 Chieti-Pescara, A14 Pescara Ovest-Chieti)
  • RA13 (toll gate: A4 Trieste Lisert).

Since 2012, all autostrade and all 14 RA (classified as autostrada, as extraurbana principale or as extraurbana secondaria) managed by ANAS will be tolled with ''free-flow'' system

Last edited by lucaf1; June 30th, 2010 at 06:03 PM.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 08:46 PM   #1657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucaf1 View Post
Because of the financial crisis there will be from tomorrow:

  • RA13 (toll gate: A4 Trieste Lisert).
where is that? down from monfalcone?
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Old June 30th, 2010, 08:58 PM   #1658
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Yes, by Monfalcone (Tržič).
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Old June 30th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #1659
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http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Au...de_Trieste.png
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Old June 30th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #1660
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Originally Posted by lucaf1 View Post
Since 2012, all autostrade and all 14 RA (classified as autostrada, as extraurbana principale or as extraurbana secondaria) managed by ANAS will be tolled with ''free-flow'' system
Any more detail about that? 2012 is only 18 months away. Will be satelite, microwave or vignette based?
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