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Old July 29th, 2007, 12:33 PM   #161
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I'm sorry for my bad english.

You must know that, to Naples until Calabria, the highway called "Salerno-Reggio Calabria" (code A3), is a mountain-highway across the Apenines, with an impressive list of tunnels, viaducts, bridges, for 442 kilometers.
It was finished in 1974, more than 30 years ago, being one of the oldest highway in Europe (in 1974 there weren't highways in France, Spain, Great Britain and east Europe).

Of course, being an old highway on and over the mountains, in some parts can be more narrow than a normal highway and in other parts can look more "old" than every other highway in Europe.

But be the first country to build highways (Milan-Lakes, the first highway in the world, 1924) is not a shame.

Actually the A3 is under a great plane of development for 20 billion €, an expensive plane to transform the old A3 in a new modern highway building new tunnels, bridges, viaducts.

Here an exemplificative simulation

New tunnel and old viaduct



Some pics





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Old July 29th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto;
As for the 40km/h exits, I'm under the impression that's usual in Italy (signaling the speed limit after the exit on the motorway signaling). I would say that this is due to that unusual signaling system and not to the fact that the exit is particularlly dangerous.
Yes,
the "street code" wants 40km/h for exit lanes.

Of course, nobody respects a so stupid signal.
(to decelerate to 130km/h until 40km/h can be very dangerous)
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Old July 29th, 2007, 01:44 PM   #163
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Yes, my picture was taken on A3 in Calabria. It is only very short sections, other parts are mainly in good condition. I have more pictures to show but later. I've driven almost whole A3 up to 30 km before Regio Calabria. Old road is generally in quite bad condition, but massive improvements are in progress on many parts (mainly up to about 90 km after Salerno and up to about 100 km before Regio C. Modernized A3 is up to modern autostrada standards, old, however, are not. But also old Autobahns in Germany do not meet modern motorway standards (except maybe in mainteance), so there not to be very worried about Calabria autostrada.

Overall, while not of good quality, whole A3 is a spectacular and very picturesque autostrada, "a must" for highway lovers. Probably the most impressive motorway in south Europe I've driven on beside Genova - Nice motorway.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 02:37 PM   #164
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Lots of people mention Italy for having the first real Motorway road, but as far as i know, this is WRONG!

The road was only a 1+1 with even no barrier in between!


The starting point of the autostrada Milano-Laghi in Lainate north-west of Milano in 1925


Junction of two autostrada's near Milano in 1932, watch the many many HUGE billboards


Bridges over the autostrada Toscana (Firenze-Mare), 1933

Quote:
1) Before 1945 there were no real autostrada, and for atostrada i mean 2 separate carriageway
2) The italian goverment started thinking about real autostradas during 1952-53 and one of the main purposes was (apart from modernizing the country) to raise FIAT industry.. better roads, better cars, more income (the economic boom in italy was arriving.. it occurred in the early 60s)
3) The first complete motorway opened was the A1 Milano-Roma together with the A2 Roma-Napoli on 1964
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Old July 29th, 2007, 02:40 PM   #165
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Italian local signage is really crazy!

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Old July 29th, 2007, 02:51 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
Italian local signage is really crazy!
crazy indeed, but i've allways liked it
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Old July 29th, 2007, 04:35 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
What a mess there. Everything south of Rome in Italy is worse, i've heard. The A3 southbound to Reggio Calabria was one of the worst motorways ever. But pics of that road are very rare.
Naples is south of Rome and there autostradas are very good until Salerno(south of Naples) and also in Puglia(adriatice side)they're pretty good...A3 is improving right now(adding 3rd line).

While previous pictures refer to Sicily island where there isn't a large highway network.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 04:38 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
Italian local signage is really crazy!

Italy is made up of lots of small villages and they need to be reachable
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Old July 29th, 2007, 06:58 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlvs View Post
I'm sorry for my bad english.

You must know that, to Naples until Calabria, the highway called "Salerno-Reggio Calabria" (code A3), is a mountain-highway across the Apenines, with an impressive list of tunnels, viaducts, bridges, for 442 kilometers.
It was finished in 1974, more than 30 years ago, being one of the oldest highway in Europe (in 1974 there weren't highways in France, Spain, Great Britain and east Europe).

Of course, being an old highway on and over the mountains, in some parts can be more narrow than a normal highway and in other parts can look more "old" than every other highway in Europe.

But be the first country to build highways (Milan-Lakes, the first highway in the world, 1924) is not a shame.

Actually the A3 is under a great plane of development for 20 billion €, an expensive plane to transform the old A3 in a new modern highway building new tunnels, bridges, viaducts.

20 billion € for rebuilding 442km?! That's about 45M€/Km, which is very expensive even for a new rural motorway! With that money they could easylly build a new one.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 07:03 PM   #170
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As i see the A3, the road has to be completely rebuild at it's current place, and to be realigned. So it's a load of money, but it's worth it, it's the only fast road south of Salerno.

Think of the Belgian renewed E25 and E411, because they building on the existing road, it looks like renewal, but in fact it was a completely rebuilding of the road, not just some new pavement.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 07:14 PM   #171
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Even so. It would probably be easier to build a new one. And it would be better.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 07:48 PM   #172
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It's not that easy. The geography of Calabria is extremely difficult, and compromises a lot of mountain ranges that go steep up from the sea. So finding a whole new stretch is hard.

This is the terrain the A3 goes through;







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Old July 29th, 2007, 10:07 PM   #173
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bah... after A10 everything is possible!
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Old July 29th, 2007, 10:50 PM   #174
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Quote:
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bah... after A10 everything is possible!



Anyway,this is a great problem here. The land generally sucks for the infrastructures!

there are a lot of territories in which it's hard to plan railways and highways!
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Old July 29th, 2007, 11:50 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
It's not that easy. The geography of Calabria is extremely difficult, and compromises a lot of mountain ranges that go steep up from the sea. So finding a whole new stretch is hard.
As I've seen, modernization of A3 is actually completely new motorway, which includes new tunnels (longer than current ones) and viaducts. Especially difficult is the last 50 km before Regio Calabria, because it involves big and long descent with only very high viaduct-long tunnel combinations. Current A3 has only 2+2 lanes without emergency lanes, ancient tunnels and (while impressive) long and extremely high viaducts in deteriorated state. Also current motorway is very curvy, so new motorway is quite straightened.
(I'll post some pictures later, that you'll see current state of A3)
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Old July 30th, 2007, 04:31 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
It's not that easy. The geography of Calabria is extremely difficult, and compromises a lot of mountain ranges that go steep up from the sea. So finding a whole new stretch is hard.
Yes I'm aware of that. I don't know how are construction costs in Italy, but here in Portugal and Spain, with that price (45M€/Km), you could even build a freeway made of pure gold!!




Quote:
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Especially difficult is the last 50 km before Regio Calabria, because it involves big and long descent with only very high viaduct-long tunnel combinations.
Well, from my experiance, Italian freeways are step inclinations free, because of the huge amount of tunnels!!
It's unbeliaveble. For example, last here I came from Austria and went to France (through northern Itally), and passing by all the mountain zones I've probably never seen climbs steper than 3% or so. Instead of step climbs you just build tunnels+tunnels+tunnels!! Where do you get the money for that!??
This is for sure one of the most fascinating things about Italian motorways... the sheer amount of tunnels.. like nothing I've ever seen elsewhere in europe.

Regarding that Calabria section, I guess it will be very difficult because by Italian norms you probably can't have inclinations with more than 3% or something like that. Here in Portugal or Spain for example we would have no problems with inclinations of 4 or 5%.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
Well, from my experiance, Italian freeways are step inclinations free, because of the huge amount of tunnels!!
It's unbeliaveble. For example, last here I came from Austria and went to France (through northern Itally), and passing by all the mountain zones I've probably never seen climbs steper than 3% or so. Instead of step climbs you just build tunnels+tunnels+tunnels!! Where do you get the money for that!??
This is for sure one of the most fascinating things about Italian motorways... the sheer amount of tunnels.. like nothing I've ever seen elsewhere in europe.
yes, that's true! it's fascinating me too! unfortunately, most of those tunnels are very unsafe and unequieped. i don't know if you know for that EuroTAP testing, but Italians have been banning testing of their tunnels because of extremely poor results. i hope they will change it soon to better, although they have really huge work to do with it
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Old July 30th, 2007, 12:06 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto View Post
Well, from my experiance, Italian freeways are step inclinations free, because of the huge amount of tunnels!!
It's unbeliaveble. For example, last here I came from Austria and went to France (through northern Itally), and passing by all the mountain zones I've probably never seen climbs steper than 3% or so. Instead of step climbs you just build tunnels+tunnels+tunnels!! Where do you get the money for that!??
This is for sure one of the most fascinating things about Italian motorways... the sheer amount of tunnels.. like nothing I've ever seen elsewhere in europe.
That's true, and not only for motorways

Anyway to better see the difference of costruction respect other parts of Europe just run on A10 to Ventimiglia and then in France to Nice
Near Nice you'll find a very stepped stretch, so stepped they built a 'special lane' for trucks to climb it at a very slow speed
And on the opposite direction they built on the whole run emergency wayout for trucks which evenctualy have their breaks broken thanks to step reduction

[IMG]http://i11.************/5xt59v4.jpg[/IMG]


I saw something like that even on the new 'atoroute' they built to reach Millau (the famous viaduct is part of that highway)


To be honest I know even in Italy there is something similar: near Catania (on A18) they built similar emergency way out for trucks
Here there is one of 'em

[img]http://i16.************/34o8qy9.jpg[/img]
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:18 PM   #179
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there is a lot of such things in France around Nice! and i know for one that thing in Slovenia, too
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Old July 30th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #180
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Yes, I'm familar with that situation GENIUS LOCI. The contrast is indeed very sharp!

We have some of those emergency wayouts here in Portugal too.
And the extra lane for slow vehicles in step climbs in motorways is a very common thing! You don't see that in Itally? Well, I guess not, as italian motorways are step climbs free.

Some examples:
On portuguese A1:


On spanish A3:
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