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Old August 26th, 2010, 11:30 PM   #1841
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by now and for a long time there's no need to add capacity to that "cloverleaf" interchange. That road is usually free of traffic.

The only possible problems happen when there's some important event inside the Fair or when a loto of vehicle need to enter the roundabout in the direction of SP46. But when SP46 will connect directly (bypassing the roundabouts) this problem will be over.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 03:15 AM   #1842
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Italian highway code: all road signs (and not only...) here:


http://www.siulp.it/Layouts.asp?IDPa...dine=780#sez23

Last edited by lucaf1; August 31st, 2010 at 04:51 PM.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #1843
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thanks to Gualtiero

Pictures of A3, some pieces renovated (2 lanes+emergency lane) in Calabria (towards the end of the highway) and some of the works in progress

I find them always very interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gualtiero View Post
Viadotto e tunnel in costruzione (Scilla - Bagnara)

[IMG]http://i33.************/8zeb03.jpg[/IMG]

S.Elia di Melicuccà - Palmi
[IMG]http://i35.************/s33dbn.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i35.************/16hvux3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i36.************/2eam53k.jpg[/IMG]
Palmi - Rosarno
[IMG]http://i37.************/dhg38p.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i38.************/anbn7n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i33.************/jii48x.jpg[/IMG]

Rosarno - Palmi

[IMG]http://i35.************/2yzj1gp.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i36.************/dbl94p.jpg[/IMG]
Invito ad una bella accelerata!
[IMG]http://i33.************/22eyit.jpg[/IMG]

Palmi - S.Elia di Melicuccà
Inizio di un tratto che dovrebbe tagliare di netto una buona fetta di vecchia autostrada
[IMG]http://i37.************/2n15kee.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i38.************/141icqx.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i34.************/f8fnm.jpg[/IMG]
Qui il nuovo tratto è addirittura perpendicolare all'attuale tracciato

S.Elia di Melicuccà - Scilla (si nota la difficoltà che il territorio crea nella realizzazione di questa stupenda opera)
[IMG]http://i35.************/34rd7ww.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i36.************/33lmk21.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i34.************/34e86f9.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i33.************/64l7bd.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i37.************/2uz4cxh.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i36.************/23w0kf5.jpg[/IMG]

Aggiungo:1) Hanno intenzione di sistemare anche lo svincolo di Rosarno?visto che il tratto nuovo finisce poco prima e riprende subito dopo!
2)Non c'è traccia di ripresa dei cantieri sequestrati tra Rosarno e Mileto
3) Segnale di totale abbandono nel lungo rettilineo tra Pizzo e poco prima di Lamezia Terme
4) Non esiste ancora nessun cantiere per quanto riguarda, penso, uno dei tratti più difficili la discesa - salita S. Onofrio - Pizzo

Non dobbiamo farci prendere in giro, visto lo stato dell'autostrada nemmeno se lavorassero 24 ore al giorno la finiscono come intende farci credere Ciucci...ami il calzino.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 06:26 PM   #1844
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there are seriously works going on!!
can somebody write alist of finnished sections and sections where the works are currently in progress?
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Old August 30th, 2010, 07:47 PM   #1845
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http://www.stradeanas.it/index.php?/file/download/10106

In Italian but it's easily understandable.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 09:00 PM   #1846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
http://www.stradeanas.it/index.php?/file/download/10106

In Italian but it's easily understandable.
non importa, parlo italiano
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Old August 31st, 2010, 01:39 AM   #1847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucaf1 View Post
Italian highway code: all road signs (and not only...) here:


http://www.siulp.it/Layouts.asp?IDPa...dine=780#sez71
Is there an English version available online?
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Old August 31st, 2010, 02:17 AM   #1848
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Old August 31st, 2010, 10:36 AM   #1849
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I call your attention to some particular signaling protocols in Italy:

#3c - weekends and holidays (used to specify when a restriction/direction is valid)
#3d - weekdays (idem)

#6/p1 - sign post at the beginning of a ascent/descent with many hairpin curves, indicating the number of them

#6/p2 - indicates which of the hairpins are you about to drive through (it's not uncommon to have mountains ascents with 20-30 - sometimes 40 - hairpins with low visibility, so this signs help you get and idea where are you in relate to the difficult mountain sector).

#40 - regular intersection, preference shall be given to vehicles coming on the right

#74 - unless otherwise stated, the parking forbidden restriction (e.g., a stand-alone sign without hours specification) applies only between 7h and 20h.

#85 - minimum speed limit

#312 - recommended (but not compulsory limited) driving speed

#322 - zona traffico limitato This is the trickiest Italian sign. A Z.T.L. is an area with wide restriction on traffic. You need to read what is below to understand it. In a nutshell, there are two major types of Z.T.L.: (a) restriction on trucks/caravans, usually indicated by an auxiliary sign (#137, #138, #139, #140) below it ; and (b) a restricted zone where, during certain times/days, only residents and registered vehicles can drive in (common in core medieval centers of many Italian cities, usually encompassing no more than 1/2 km²).

#448 - parking forbidden (horizontal signaling). Moreover, specific restriction apply in presence of blue lanes (paid parking/time-limited parking) or yellow lanes (reserved parking).

#461c - "green wave" recommended speed, meaning a sector whose traffic lights are coordinated to turn on as to provide non-stop journey if the driver retains the indicated speed.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 11:46 AM   #1850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
Is there an English version available online?
Sorry, but it isn't very difficult to understand:

- light green: works completed.
- magenta: works annulled.
- yellow: works ongoing.
- red: works not yet started
- orange: call for tenders ended.
- cyan: call for tenders ongoing.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 01:11 PM   #1851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Sorry, but it isn't very difficult to understand:

- light green: works completed.
- magenta: works annulled.
- yellow: works ongoing.
- red: works not yet started
- orange: call for tenders ended.
- cyan: call for tenders ongoing.
He was asking about the signaling specifications for the CdS, not about the status update from Anas
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Old August 31st, 2010, 01:39 PM   #1852
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Why don't I ever read....
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Old September 1st, 2010, 06:48 PM   #1853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
#3c - weekends and holidays (used to specify when a restriction/direction is valid)
#3d - weekdays (idem)
AFAIK, saturdays are considered as weekdays, not as holidays

Thus, there is no definition of the "weekend" in the Road Law, as Sat. and Sun. always come with different regulations.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 06:51 PM   #1854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
AFAIK, saturdays are considered as weekdays, not as holidays

Thus, there is no definition of the "weekend" in the Road Law, as Sat. and Sun. always come with different regulations.
Bad choice of words... Too much time far from Italy here
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Old September 2nd, 2010, 09:58 PM   #1855
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What a waste... It would be like a city banning electricity. I'm highly annoyed by these anti-car measures. But after all, its their government. So I take my angry and bitterness against officials who established discriminatory ZTLs in Italy instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Why are you against ZTLs? I think that in the small streets of italian cities they're the only way to keep the city "livable"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Well, first of all not all ZTLs were created equal... I can understand a ZTL in Urbino, Matera or San Gimignano, or those covering small tracts of narrow medieval streets. Siena ZTL, for instance, is too large, covering wide roads together with real alleys where car traffic would not be feasible.

However, nothing explains the fairness of ZTLs in Firenze, Bologna, Milano and Roma that cover large boulevards and so. Bologna and Roma ZTLs are the worse IMO.

In any case, I'd prefer a toll system that collected the same fare from everyone accessing the area, resident or not. I'd not mind paying some extra euros to go straight to the Due Torri in Bologna, for instance, if I had such option, while other drivers would just park their cars outside the ZTLs to avoid tolls. But they discriminate in favor of residents, which is unfair.

Well, I think we should move this discussion to the Italian road forum
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't know Rome but I like very much Bologna ZTL... the city centre is full of people walking by, I'd prefer them very much over cars...


You serious? And discriminating in favour of rich people is better than discriminating in favour of residents???

I bet our political views ar waaaaaay different
Well, people could still walk if the ZTL didn't exist. That is my point: forcing people to walk by limiting the core medieval centers access to cars is wrong, it's and undue intervention of the "comune" in the private choice of transportation of their citizens.

Market solutions (tolls) are always better than gerrymandered schemes where some people living in one side of an avenue can park and drive their cars, but not the others living 20m across.

I still favor pedestrianized limited zones on narrow alleys or plazas, and also parking restrictions on streets (so ppl can park underground and free up space overground), but not this discriminatory views that residents of a place are entitled more rights than others.

To the extent I know, internal discrimination of access was terminated in Italy in 1861. The ZTLs are a sad point in a fortunately limited trend of considering some Italians more Italian than others in face of the Law, in the case, traffic law. It's like a parochial version of the "auto blue".

After all, "la legge è [oppure dovrebbe essere] uguale per tutti" (the Law is (or should be) equal for everyone).
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Old September 2nd, 2010, 10:01 PM   #1856
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I don't like laws who favour people who pay...

Well, I've given my opinion, and I'm very much interested in those of you all...
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Old September 2nd, 2010, 10:11 PM   #1857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I don't like laws who favour people who pay...

Well, I've given my opinion, and I'm very much interested in those of you all...
Then you have to cope with traffic jams, and let everybody try to ride those streets.
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Old September 2nd, 2010, 10:14 PM   #1858
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Or close them, that's the way it is now and I'm happy about it.
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Old September 2nd, 2010, 10:20 PM   #1859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Or close them, that's the way it is now and I'm happy about it.
Closing a street because it is too jammed is like stopping the production of the iPad because there are too many people willing to buy it.

I don't oppose SMALL pedestrianized areas in narrow streets. But nothing justifies, like in Bologna, to introduce a ZTL in the main avenue, which remains free-flowing for shady buses and rip-off taxis at the expense of the rights of Italian tax-payers drivers like me.

I don't mind walking from the nearest garage to the Due Torri, but I'd rather have the option to drive there if I wanted to.
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Old September 2nd, 2010, 10:29 PM   #1860
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Closing a street because it is too jammed is like stopping the production of the iPad because there is too many people willing to buy it.
Your analogy does not hold. You can enlarge the chain production of iPad if so many people want to buy it, but you cannot enlarge a road in the middle of a city.

Quote:
I don't oppose SMALL pedestrianized areas in narrow streets. But nothing justifies, like in Bologna, to introduce a ZTL in the main avenue, which remains free-flowing for shady buses and rip-off taxis at the expense of the rights of Italian tax-payers drivers like me.
I can see your point. Bologna central "T" (via Indipendenza and via Rizzoli/Bassi) are indeed large roads and someone can see their "ZTLness" as a waste.
I understand you are a urbanist and you can speak having knowledge of the facts.
I speak just as a citizen of Bologna, a driver who does NOT live in the centre, and I am happy the way things are right now. I can go to the centre by bus ("shady bus") walk freely without fear of being run over by some businessman driving Audi in a hurry, enjoy San Pietro and the neighbourhood.
And if they put more buses and trams the large roads of the central "T" will be busier and I will be even more satisfied.


Quote:
I don't mind walking from the nearest garage to the Due Torri, but I'd rather have the option to drive there if I wanted to.
If everyone could go in the centre of Bologna whenever they want, 1- there would be no parking for the residents, who are privileged and I am ok with that (they live there!), 2- Bologna centre would be a whole big traffic jam from 8am till 8pm.


But I think we made our points: let's hear what do other forumers think about it.
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