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Old July 4th, 2007, 10:07 PM   #181
BrooklynNYC
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Probably about money. It's much more expensive to build one 1,000 foot tower than two 500 foot towers.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 06:35 AM   #182
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'Extreme Makeover' coming to Penn Station? Eyewitness News
(New York - WABC, July 4, 2007)

There's a new $14 billion plan in the works to improve Penn Station.

Two of the city's largest developers will soon unveil their design.
The proposal would move Madison Square Garden, replace Hotel Pennsylvania, and build a pair of skyscrapers over the site of the existing station.

It's far from being a done deal, but at the end of the month the public will get a first glimpse at the new design.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 07:40 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynNYC View Post
Probably about money. It's much more expensive to build one 1,000 foot tower than two 500 foot towers.

really? i figured it would be cheaper to build higher... less land, less materials.... i've always been told it's cheaper to build up than out
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Old July 5th, 2007, 10:50 PM   #184
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if cheaper or more expensive has to do with the prices of the land where a tower/ or more are planned.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:12 PM   #185
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At least it won't be long till we see something.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:53 PM   #186
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What? They are going to take out the Garden???!!??!! They shouldn't do that...

I agree. MSG is one rare round form in NYC skyline.

Last edited by newnewyorker; July 7th, 2007 at 10:01 PM.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 10:54 PM   #187
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I agree. MSG is one rare round form in NYC skyline.
leaves alot to be desired considering it houses professional sports teams in the greatest city in the world.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 11:22 PM   #188
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It would be rebuilt.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 12:43 AM   #189
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http://archrecord.construction.com/n...ennStation.asp

SOM, Foster, and KPF to remake Penn Station

July 16, 2007
by Russell Fortmeyer

Skidmore Owings & Merrill (SOM), Foster + Partners, and Kohn Pedersen Fox (KPF) have been retained as architects for a multi-billion-dollar-project to redevelop New York City’s Pennsylvania Station district, parties close to the deal confirmed on Friday.

Bud Perrone, a spokesperson for the project’s developers, a joint venture of the Related Companies and Vornado Realty Trust, acknowledged that the three architecture firms are involved. Another source involved in the design of the project told RECORD that Foster will prepare the master plan for a site that includes the existing Penn Station, Madison Square Garden (MSG), and two office towers, One and Two Penn Plazas. This plan calls for razing MSG and capping the subterranean train station with a large glass dome.

Errol Cockfield, a spokesperson for the Empire State Development Corporation (ESDC)—the state agency involved in organizing development between private and public interests—confirmed much of the project’s scope. The redevelopment plans include SOM’s previously announced transformation of the Farley Post Office, which the ESDC purchased in March at the southwest corner of 33rd Street and 8th Avenue, into a new Moynihan Station that would augment Penn’s existing—and at-capacity—infrastructure. Cockfield says that the low-rise podium of One Penn would likely be razed, but that the tower would remain and that Two Penn would only be re-skinned. (RECORD’s offices happen to be located in Two Penn Plaza.)

Cockfield says that the ESDC has yet to assemble a timetable for making the designs public, or for the phases of development, but he did say that a scoping session would occur before summer’s end. This session will establish the amount of square footage that the development might contain and prepare rudimentary drawings for how it will be divided. “Some of this is still in flux and people want answers and there is frustration in some corners,” Cockfield says. However, other sources tell RECORD that environmental review hearings are expected to begin this fall. A draft Environmental Impact Statement was completed for the Moynihan project in 2006.

The destruction of McKim Mead & White’s original 1910 Penn Station, in 1964, is largely credited with establishing the historic preservation movement in the U.S. Charles Luckman Associates designed the replacement station, MSG, and office complex, but the public has never quite embraced them. Historian Vincent Scully once wrote that in the old Penn Station, “one entered the city like a god,” while in the new subterranean complex “one scuttles in now like a rat.”

In recent years, the site has been the subject of much speculation. A source involved in the design of the redevelopment has told RECORD that Two Penn Plaza would also be razed to allow for wholesale redevelopment of the area. Planned new structures might include 5.5-million-square-feet of retail, restaurant, hotel, and office space designed by SOM.

Additionally, for a site at the corner of 34th Street and 7th Avenue, KPF would design a 2-million-square-foot skyscraper that will be taller than the Empire State Building, located just two blocks away.

SOM’s plan to turn the Farley Post Office building—designed by McKim Mead & White and completed in 1913—into Moynihan Station could act as the front door to a relocated MSG to the west, as well as house retail space that may include a large department store. Cockfield would not confirm whether or not other architects are involved in this project, but he said that Amtrak or New Jersey Transit will likely call Moynihan home. Currently, those two rail services and the Long Island Rail Road jockey for space in overcrowded Penn underneath MSG. Six adjacent subway lines add to the congestion.

David Childs, FAIA, a partner with SOM, says that his firm is mainly focusing on the Moynihan project. “It’s going to be one of those great stories, but if we finish by 2012, we’ll be lucky,” he says. After numerous starts and stops, that project was put on hold in 2006 when state government officials, including assembly speaker Sheldon Silver, withheld approval until a plan for the entire district could be put forward for review.

Perrone, who is with Rubenstein Communications, says that there are on-going discussions between the developers and various state and local agencies, including the ESDC, the City of New York, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the railway services, and the state government.

Separately, plans were announced last winter for the destruction of McKim Mead & White’s 1918 Pennsylvania Hotel, located at the northeast corner of 32nd Street and 7th Avenue, to make room for a hotel tower to be designed by Cesar Pelli & Associates and developed by Vornado.

That building’s demolition will leave only the Farley building as the last vestige of the celebrated architects’ legacy in the Penn Station district.
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Old July 17th, 2007, 05:12 AM   #190
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they should built madison cube garden like in futureama lol that would be sweet
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Old July 17th, 2007, 09:04 AM   #191
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At least they will be taller than the Empire States Building
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Old July 18th, 2007, 05:06 PM   #192
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1184...googlenews_wsj

A Garden Grows

July 18, 2007

Madison Square Garden has a new team.

Tycoon duo Stephen Ross of Related Cos. and Steven Roth of Vornado Realty Trust, along with the owner of Madison Square Garden, have hired a team of architects for their planned $14 billion megaproject, which will include a new sports arena, a new train station, and a quartet of towers that will alter the New York skyline.

British architect Norman Foster along with David Childs of Skidmore, Owings and Merrill, New York, collaborating on two towers and a revamped Pennsylvania Station that will rise on the current Madison Square Garden site. The towers would dominate Midtown Manhattan's skyline, one rising higher than the Empire State Building, currently New York's tallest building, at 1,250 feet.

Cablevision Systems Corp., which owns Madison Square Garden, has hired Toronto-based Brisbin Brook Beynon Architects to design the new arena, which is slated to move across the street to between Eighth and Ninth avenues, currently home to the historic James A. Farley Post Office. SHoP Architects PC, New York, will design the street scapes around the new arena.

Pelli Clarke Pelli Architects, New Haven, Conn., will design an office tower with trading floors at the Vornado owned Hotel Pennsylvania site on Seventh Avenue. Merrill Lynch & Co. and Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. are said to be potential tenants there. New York architects Kohn Pedersen Fox Associates will design a separate tower at the corner of 34th Street and Seventh Avenue.

The project awaits several layers of approval, and as conceived, wouldn't be done for more than a decade.

Related and Vornado are also floating an alternative plan that would speed their return on investment in the project by several years. Instead of building the two tallest towers on the current Madison Square Garden site, they would ask the city to let them transfer the "air rights" there to other properties in the neighborhood that could be built on faster.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 10:52 PM   #193
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Ok, so no twin-thing. 10 years in total. Not bad.
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Old July 22nd, 2007, 11:25 PM   #194
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Based on my reading of that wall street journal article, this is where I think those four towers are going.

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Old July 23rd, 2007, 12:17 AM   #195
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i vote for the madison cube garden
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 01:04 AM   #196
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WHat? I dont understand, Are they going to destroy the Madison Square Garden and build these twin towers? :
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 01:06 AM   #197
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the're going to move it but yeah, they are going to destroy it.
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 01:24 AM   #198
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OMG, i can't believe it.. Now i dont want these towers..
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 01:51 AM   #199
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OMG, i can't believe it.. Now i dont want these towers..
NIMBY ALERT!!!
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 02:16 AM   #200
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so let me get this right...twins at 500ft...not one 1000ft...and on the MSG site...so where would they put the "Garden" at?...would that cost be put to the builders...or the city?...where would the new Garden be placed?....where would they(Knick & Islanders) play games?...some fill me in yeah...o by the way two 500 footers would not even be noticed in Mid-Town..Imho
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