daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 23rd, 2007, 11:07 PM   #501
NYguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 49
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by nygirl View Post
Nyguy.. I'm sorry if it's hidden somewhere deep in the article but I figured you would know best as to what those dots were?
Just part of the rendering.
NYguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 23rd, 2007, 11:13 PM   #502
NYguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 49
Likes (Received): 4

http://www.nylovesbiz.com/moynihanstation/

STATE BEGINS PUBLIC REVIEW FOR NEW MOYNIHAN STATION
Release of Scoping Document Launches Initial Stage of Public Review


10/23/2007

The Empire State Development Corporation announced today that the State has initiated the public review process for the Moynihan Station project, a sweeping public transit plan to dramatically enhance transportation links in and around Penn Station. The plans are set out in a scoping document that was released to the public today.

The redevelopment includes building a new Moynihan Station within the James A. Farley Post Office, rebuilding the existing Penn Station to improve commuter flow, and constructing a new Madison Square Garden within Farley’s western Annex. This will ease crowds and substantially increase access at Penn Station. Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, Long Island Rail Road, and New York City subway passengers will be able to make connections throughout the larger complex. These public transportation improvements will be subsidized by private development that will serve as a catalyst for commercial growth on Manhattan’s West Side.

Today, Penn Station is America’s busiest passenger transportation facility, handling more passengers than Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark Liberty airports combined.

ESDC will hold a public scoping session on Thursday, December 6th, and members of the public are invited to comment on the scope until Monday, December 17th. The public will also have additional opportunities to comment as the project moves forward.

Once the current MSG is demolished, Penn Station will be rebuilt into the treasure it once was, with an enhanced experience at track level leading to wider corridors, higher ceilings, and – for the first time in 40 years – natural day light. The scoping document describes the four major principles that will guide the design of the rebuilt Penn Station: (1) passengers will be able to access all levels from all corners of the station; (2) there will be a clearly identifiable central hall and meeting place; (3) passengers will move around more easily in day-lit, wider, high-ceilinged corridors; (4) it will be easier for passengers to reach streets, subways, railroad concourses, platforms and adjacent commercial development. All of the project partners are participating in a Design Task Force that will yield conceptual station plans. Cost estimates will follow a final design.

Following the City’s Public Review Process (ULURP), development of up to approximately 5.4 million square feet could be permitted, including a 2.7 million sq ft bonus, provided that MSG is relocated and significant transportation improvements are made.

The scope includes two options for the disposition of this square footage; the creation, by special permit, of a 1.1-million-square-foot, predominantly retail development on the site, and the dispersion of the remaining 4.3 million square feet of development rights into a new zoning sub-district surrounding the Penn Station complex; or the entire bonus and as-of-right development remaining on the Penn Station site in the form of two new towers over a retail and commercial podium.


The first option would minimize construction within and over the operating railroad station.

The project would be completed in two phases. Phase I (2008 to 2011) includes the development of the new train station at Farley, the construction of the new MSG, the redevelopment of the block between 33rd and 34th Streets and Seventh and Eight Avenues, and potential utilization within the sub-district of some development rights transferred from the Penn Station block. One and Two Penn Plaza will remain in place.

Phase II (2012 to 2018) includes the construction of a new Penn Station, and the development of the remaining development square footage. The public train station portion of the project is expected to be funded by the private developers and by contributions by the State, City and Federal governments. Preliminary estimates indicate the project is expected to generate billions of dollars in new tax revenues, thousands of permanent jobs and construction jobs.
NYguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2007, 11:18 PM   #503
NYguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 49
Likes (Received): 4

It's gonna take a while to sort through the document, but it looks like regardless of whatever version of the MSG/Penn Station project gets built, the 2 msf tower at the SW corner of 34th and 7th will move forward:
http://www.nylovesbiz.com/pdf/Moynih...copeofWork.pdf

Construction of approximately 7.5 million zoning square feet of new commercial or mixed-use space. Two options are under consideration for approximately 5.4 million zoning square feet of this development. Under the Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option, up to 125,000 zoning square feet of office and retail space would be built on the west end of the One Penn Plaza block (the block bounded by Eighth and Seventh Avenues and West 33rd and 34th Streets, which contains the One Penn Plaza building) and up to 5.4 million zoning square feet of mixed-use development would be constructed above and around the reconstructed Penn Station (on the Penn Station Block).

Under the Moynihan Station Subdistrict Option, up to approximately 1.1 million zoning square feet of commercial space (predominately retail) would be developed above Moynihan Station East and up to approximately 4.3 million zoning square feet of mixed-use development would be built on multiple receiving sites within a new zoning Subdistrict.

Under both options it is currently anticipated that up to approximately 2 million zoning square feet of commercial space would be developed on the east end of the One Penn Plaza block.
NYguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2007, 11:52 PM   #504
NYguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 49
Likes (Received): 4

On page 20 (18), we get to the meat of the proposals...
http://www.nylovesbiz.com/pdf/Moynih...copeofWork.pdf

Mixed-Use, High-Rise Redevelopment

Following completion of the new MSG arena by 2011 in the Farley Complex, the existing MSG would be demolished. As described above, there are presently two development options for the utilization of the approximately 5.4 million square feet of bonus and unused floor area available on the Penn Station Block. These two options are described below.

ESDC, MSDC, and New York City will assess the two options, in consultation with the railroads operating at Penn Station, against the goals and objectives of the project, and between issuance of this Draft Scope and completion of the draft SEQRA SEIS and NEPA EIS, one of the two development options will be identified as the proposed project. The draft SEQRA SEIS and NEPA EIS will analyze the selected option as a component of the proposed Expanded Moynihan Project, and will discuss why the other option is not being pursued.

Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option

Under this option, a high-rise mixed-use development would be built on the Penn Station Block above and around Moynihan Station East. This development would consist of up to 5.4 million bonus and unused zoning square feet of office, hotel, retail, and possibly residential uses in two towers (not including the existing 32-story Two Penn Plaza building that would remain on-site).

For this option, there is a proposed commercial scenario and a proposed mixed-use scenario that includes residential space. The Two Penn Plaza building on the Seventh Avenue frontage of the site would remain but could be altered to provide additional retail space, and it would be reclad as part of the project.

Environmental review of the proposed Expanded Moynihan Project will analyze a reasonable worst-case development scenario for the Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option based upon two illustrative private development scenarios for the Penn Station Block. Each scenario would include up to 5.4 million bonus and unused zoning square feet of mixed-use
development as shown in Table 1.

Scenario A of the Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option includes residential, hotel, retail, and commercial office uses. Scenario B includes more office and retail uses, a smaller hotel, and no residential space. Under each scenario, the Penn Station Block would be developed with two high-rise towers above a 115-foot-tall shared base. On East 33rd Street, there would be an approximately 1,100-foot-tall tower massed with a lower component, and an approximately 1,300-foot-tall tower would be located on East 31st Street.
NYguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2007, 11:58 PM   #505
Ebola
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,658
Likes (Received): 94

Renderings of the new supertallz please! I really hope we see something today or within this week.

They'd be imbeciles or NY tower-haters not to pick the plan with more office.
Ebola no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2007, 12:49 AM   #506
NYguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 49
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
Renderings of the new supertallz please! I really hope we see something today or within this week.

They'd be imbeciles or NY tower-haters not to pick the plan with more office.
Either plan will have the same amount of office space, they're just unsure of where it will be built. The MSG option puts it all there, while the other option disperses the space in the surrounding area. Either way, they will build two other towers just as tall as the MSG towers: the Hotel Penn tower and the planned "Penn East" tower at 34th and 7th...

NYguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2007, 12:55 AM   #507
JohnFlint1985
I love New York
 
JohnFlint1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York - New Jersey
Posts: 15,621
Likes (Received): 6559

This ideas are going back and forth for almost 5 months now - and they still not decided what to build, where to build and how tall to build. No one has guts and taste anymore.
__________________
RIP QuantumX & Desertpunk

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Thomas Jefferson
"We Shall Never Surrender." Winston Churchill
“Not all those who wander are lost.” J.R.R. Tolkien
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
JohnFlint1985 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2007, 01:18 AM   #508
Ebola
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,658
Likes (Received): 94

Well as long as both of them have roofs over 1,100' then I'm pleased.
Ebola no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 24th, 2007, 01:49 AM   #509
romanamerican
Registered User
 
romanamerican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 583
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
Well as long as both of them have roofs over 1,100' then I'm pleased.
though 1300 is even better

Last edited by romanamerican; October 24th, 2007 at 06:25 PM.
romanamerican no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 12:24 AM   #510
LLoydGeorge
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,021
Likes (Received): 25

NY Observer

Vornado Would Dominate 'Like No Other Landlord' Under Moynihan Plans

by Tom Acitelli

Published: October 24, 2007

Vornado Realty Trust stands to win very big if the current plans for Moynihan Station go through. As the Municipal Art Society puts it on a Web site dedicated to the plans: Vornado "will dominate one district like no other landlord in the city."

Vornado, based in Paramus, NJ, and one of the biggest publicly traded landlords in the nation, already owns about 7 million square feet of commercial space between 31st Street and 34th Street west of Broadway.

Under the plans released yesterday by the Empire State Development Corporation, Vornado and its development partner on Moynihan Station, The Related Companies, could get to build over 7 million square feet of commercial and/or mixed-use space, including buildings to rival the Empire State Building in size (though probably not surpass it).

Also, Vornado owns the Hotel Pennsylvania across the street from the current Penn Station and Madison Square Garden. The landlord has long talked about tearing down the hotel and building a gigantic office tower in its place. (Press reports have put the tower's size at no less than 2 million square feet; the Empire State Building is about 2.8 million.)

For perspective, consider this: The World Trade Center site office development--which is spread among different developers, like Silverstein Properties and the Port Authority--should create about 10 million square feet of new office space. Vornado could end up building or helping build nearly the same amount in a roughly 15-block area--where it already owns about 7 million feet.

Vornado properties in the area include the 2.58 million-square-foot One Penn Plaza and the 1.1 million-square-foot 11 Penn Plaza.
LLoydGeorge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 01:32 AM   #511
Ebola
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,658
Likes (Received): 94

Far from everything, but:

Freedom Tower - 1,776'
200 Greenwich - 1,354'
MSG Site Tower I - 1,300'
Penn East Site - 1,250'+
Empire State – 1,250’
Pennsylvania Hotel Tower - 1,250'
MSG Site Tower II - 1,100'
Bank of America Tower - 1,200'
175 Greenwich Street - 1,155'
80 South Street - 1,123'
New York Times Tower - 1,046'
Chrysler Building – 1,046’
150 Greenwich – 980+

What this project brings.
Ebola no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 02:28 AM   #512
WTC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 60
Likes (Received): 4

so this is really happening and is there still 2 twin towers (looks like the new TT are born hehe) it will be cool if this really happens
WTC no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2007, 09:23 PM   #513
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,509
Likes (Received): 6534

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
Far from everything, but:

Freedom Tower - 1,776'
200 Greenwich - 1,354'
MSG Site Tower I - 1,300'
Penn East Site - 1,250'+
Empire State – 1,250’
Pennsylvania Hotel Tower - 1,250'
MSG Site Tower II - 1,100'
Bank of America Tower - 1,200'
175 Greenwich Street - 1,155'
80 South Street - 1,123'
New York Times Tower - 1,046'
Chrysler Building – 1,046’
150 Greenwich – 980+

What this project brings.
hopefully more will come
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2007, 08:29 AM   #514
RON-E
Registered User
 
RON-E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richmond, VA/Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,635
Likes (Received): 35

i hope these get built. more height for midtown is a step forward
RON-E no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2007, 03:01 PM   #515
NYguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 49
Likes (Received): 4

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/...west_side.html

Toward a fair deal on the West Side

November 5th 2007
Editorial

Gov. Spitzer and Mayor Bloomberg are facing big challenges in guiding development that would transform the area around Penn Station markedly for the better. They must protect the interests of New York taxpayers as the project advances.

On the table are the creation of two grand train stations that would serve the Long Island Rail Road, Amtrak and New Jersey Transit; construction of a new Madison Square Garden, and the erection of office towers up to 1,000 feet in height. Each component offers substantial pluses.

The public would enjoy modern transportation facilities, including a station in the Farley Post Office building to be named after the late Sen. Pat Moynihan. New York would gain an up-to-date venue for sports and entertainment. And there would be a welcome addition of office space.

The critical question: Who will pay for a new Penn Station for construction where the Garden now stands? The cost must be met primarily by the real estate developers, Vornado and the Related Cos., which are poised to build, as well as by the Garden's owner, Cablevision. The city and state should bear none of the burden.

This is proper because City Hall and Albany have already bestowed enormous financial benefits on Vornado, Related and Cablevision. By rezoning the Garden property to allow construction of office towers and by offering the arena a new location a block west, officials boosted the value of the land stratospherically - to well over $2 billion at today's market prices. They also gave Cablevision a golden opportunity to escape the outmoded Garden and to open shop in a state-of-the-art facility in the rear half of the Farley building.

Against that backdrop, the developers are negotiating for more. The price tag for creating an airy, efficient transit hub has been estimated at $2 billion, although officials have yet to unveil a design or complete a cost analysis. Vornado and Related have offered to kick in just $450 million, with the remaining $1.5 billion to be covered by federal, state and city funding.

The governor and the mayor must say no on behalf of New York taxpayers. And, federal aid notwithstanding, they must ensure the builders write a check that is far larger than the one they've been discussing. The check must reflect a clear understanding that the government is manufacturing huge wealth for Vornado, Related and Cablevision.

When the city rezoned the Garden in 2005, it permitted construction of up to 5.5 million square feet of commercial space on the site. Instantly, the property value soared. At today's market rate of as much as $400 per square foot, it's well above $2 billion.

Vornado and Related also made a killing under a now-defunct Farley Post Office development scheme. There, the state agreed to sell them the right to build 1 million square feet of space in the neighborhood. The price became extremely favorable as real estate values climbed. It stands at $123 million, several hundred million less than the going rate.

The developers plan to further boost building power by purchasing an additional 1 million square feet of development rights from the state at a price to be determined. All told, they hope to amass 7.5 million square feet of space, an amount equal to almost four Empire State Buildings. And they have the rare and valuable opportunity to put most of it on sites that are ready for building.

Under special zoning amendments, they would then erect a large shopping mall on the Garden site; build
two skyscrapers across the street to the north, one more than 700 feet tall, the other 1,000 feet tall, and they would sell 3.5 million square feet of development rights to builders for projects in the surrounding area.


Clearly, Vornado and Related are positioned to reap a bonanza. But the zoning rules say that in exchange, they must make transportation improvements. Which is where the plan to build a new Penn Station enters the picture. Even a $1 billion contribution to the project would be dramatically less than the value that's been created for them by the city and state. Which is why Spitzer and Bloomberg must hold them to every penny of their obligations while shielding New York taxpayers.
NYguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2007, 05:39 PM   #516
BrooklynNYC
Registered User
 
BrooklynNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 154
Likes (Received): 7

That's a let down but it's better than nothing. What happened to 1300?
BrooklynNYC no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2007, 08:39 PM   #517
Ebola
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,658
Likes (Received): 94

Nothing is concrete yet. I wouldn't expect us to know what will happen for this project for at least two years.
Ebola no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2007, 08:48 PM   #518
coexist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 75
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/...west_side.html
Under special zoning amendments, they would then erect a large shopping mall on the Garden site; build[/color] two skyscrapers across the street to the north, one more than 700 feet tall, the other 1,000 feet tall, and they would sell 3.5 million square feet of development rights to builders for projects in the surrounding area. [/b][/u]
A shopping mall? You have to be kidding me! This is Manhattan, not suburbia!

I'm hoping this plan gets reversed quickly.
coexist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2007, 09:21 PM   #519
JACK NAPIER
"Think about the future!"
 
JACK NAPIER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gotham City (NYC)
Posts: 199
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by coexist View Post
A shopping mall? You have to be kidding me! This is Manhattan, not suburbia!

I'm hoping this plan gets reversed quickly.
...I'm sure it will be a very nice shopping mall.
__________________
"Gotham City (NYC)... Always brings a smile to my face." :The Joker
JACK NAPIER no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2007, 09:26 PM   #520
skyscraper100
>:
 
skyscraper100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manila
Posts: 2,640
Likes (Received): 32

wow the design is great!!!
skyscraper100 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu