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Old June 19th, 2007, 09:39 PM   #121
LLoydGeorge
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"Cablevision Nears Deal to Change Site of Madison Square Garden"
March 08, 2006

By Alex Frangos
From The Wall Street Journal Online

NEW YORK -- Sports landmark Madison Square Garden will be demolished and relocated under a tentative agreement signed by Cablevision Systems Corp., paving the way for more than $3 billion in real-estate development that will include a new train station, office towers and shops in the heart of Manhattan.

According to people familiar with the matter, MSG, a Cablevision subsidiary, signed a nonbinding memorandum of understanding several weeks ago with Vornado Realty Trust, a publicly traded New York real-estate investment trust, and Related Cos., a private developer, to build the new arena.

Exact terms of the deal weren't disclosed, but it would involve the parties agreeing to develop office towers where the current Madison Square Garden stands and rebuilding the arena a block away from its present site above Pennsylvania Station, New York's busiest commuter rail hub and a gateway for hundreds of thousands of workers, business travelers and tourists.

Vornado and Related won a contract last year from New York State to convert the historic James A. Farley Post Office -- across the street from the current Penn Station -- into a new commuter rail station, shopping and commercial space. The move has been widely talked about for weeks. The memorandum was earlier reported in Crain's New York Business. All parties declined to comment. The pact isn't finalized.

The deal could create a windfall for Cablevision, of Bethpage, N.Y., and the real-estate developers. Shares of Vornado Realty Trust, which has been buying property in the area for years, rose on the reports. As of 4 p.m. in composite trading on the New York Stock Exchange, Vornado was at $91.12, up $1.68. Cablevision was at $26.50, up 10 cents, also on the Big Board.

Vornado, headed by real-estate heavyweight Steven Roth, has long coveted the current MSG site. Vornado owns several adjacent properties. Mr. Roth has said that his company realizes higher profits by owning clusters of properties because improvements to one building benefit the others. Related Cos., a politically connected New York developer, is well-known for tackling complicated mixed-use urban projects.

Another beneficiary of the deal could be Brookfield Properties Corp., a publicly traded real-estate company based in Toronto that owns a large plot across the street from where the new MSG will go. It has plans for a 2.5 million-square-foot mixed-use project there.

The transaction, if completed, means that, for the fifth time in its history, the New York arena is slated to be rebuilt. The original Madison Square Garden was built in 1874 in a converted train station at Madison Square, near Broadway and 23rd St. Architect Stanford White rebuilt the venue 10 years later, and it became a premier venue for boxing. In 1925, a new Madison Square Garden was built on 50th Street. In the mid-1960s, Pennsylvania Station was razed to make way for yet another MSG.

Email your comments to [email protected].

March 08, 2006
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Old June 19th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #122
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Hmmmm 4 new superbuildings Nice realy realy nice

Does anyone know what 1400 Feet and 900 Feet mean? Does it mean Meters??? or what or else i am cheering in uber delight off 2 towers each 1400 meters and 900 meters tall!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers
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Old June 19th, 2007, 11:36 PM   #123
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How old are you?

1 foot = 0.3048 meters

So, to make it easier for you... 1400ft=427m and 900ft=274m

Btw... it's in the title of the thread as well.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 02:27 AM   #124
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1400 meters... lol that'd be awesome
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Old June 20th, 2007, 02:38 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wearethefuture View Post
I think these (ie. the current supertall developments) will be the last major developments in NY for a while when the economic stumble inevitably does come. How much debt is America in now? Does this have to be paid back at any point? Does this relate to the US economy?

As a fan of skyscrapers and not politics i'd like NY to carry on with the iconic evolving skyline well into the future but i think there will be a hault as a result of the national economy at some point not to long off as i think these two factors are directly related.
Sounds like wishful thinking. We've been doing it the longest, we will be doing it longer. Look at every decade.. maybe not the late 40's and early 50's, we've been adding on something every era.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 04:00 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philvia View Post
1400 meters... lol that'd be awesome
No. 1,400 feet.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 04:05 AM   #127
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Over 1,400 feet!
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Old June 20th, 2007, 04:09 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLoydGeorge View Post
I am a New Yorker, and your statements are incorrect. More 50+ story office towers have been built in NY since 1993 than most cities have on their entire skyline.
You are right. In fact, most cities don't even have a skyline, much less 50+ storey high-rise towers. I am not comparing NYC with other cities, but rather NYC from 1993-2000 vs. NYC from 1985-1992, etc. The fluctuations in construction activity within a given city can be quite dramatic.

Here is the raw data for New York City:

Number of additional high-rises built with 50+ floors*:

<1929: 2

1929-1936: 11

1937-1944: 0

1945-1952: 0

1953-1960: 1

1961-1968: 6

1969-1976: 14 (including WTC 1&2)

1977-1984: 4

1985-1992: 24

1993-2000: 3 (slowest pace since the 1950s)

2001-2007**: 12

*All data was acquired from the SSP information database.
**Jan-May, 2007.

NYC - 1900-2007*: 77 (75 standing + WTC 1&2)

USA - 1900-2007*: 199 (197 standing + WTC 1&2)

Today, 38% (75/197) of all standing 50+ storey high-rises in the USA are in New York City.
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Last edited by Califoreigner; June 20th, 2007 at 04:14 AM.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:09 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califoreigner View Post
You are right. In fact, most cities don't even have a skyline, much less 50+ storey high-rise towers. I am not comparing NYC with other cities, but rather NYC from 1993-2000 vs. NYC from 1985-1992, etc. The fluctuations in construction activity within a given city can be quite dramatic.

Here is the raw data for New York City:

Number of additional high-rises built with 50+ floors*:

<1929: 2

1929-1936: 11

1937-1944: 0

1945-1952: 0

1953-1960: 1

1961-1968: 6

1969-1976: 14 (including WTC 1&2)

1977-1984: 4

1985-1992: 24

1993-2000: 3 (slowest pace since the 1950s)

2001-2007**: 12

*All data was acquired from the SSP information database.
**Jan-May, 2007.

NYC - 1900-2007*: 77 (75 standing + WTC 1&2)

USA - 1900-2007*: 199 (197 standing + WTC 1&2)

Today, 38% (75/197) of all standing 50+ storey high-rises in the USA are in New York City.

That information is wrong. 50 story buildings go up constantly in Manhattan and are largely unnoticed.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:30 AM   #130
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I challenge ANYONE to name more than 75 high-rise buildings in all of New York City with 50+ storeys.

According to Emporis Buildings, there are currently 73 completed high-rise buildings (with 50 or more floors) within the city limits of New York City. http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/s...t=9&ht=2&sro=1


If EMPORIS isn't good enough, what is? What is your evidence to prove my list incorrect? BRING IT ON!
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:32 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califoreigner View Post

I challenge ANYONE to name more than 75 high-rise buildings in all of New York City with 50+ storeys.

According to Emporis Buildings, there are currently 73 completed high-rise buildings (with 50 or more floors)within the city limits of New York City.


If EMPORIS isn't good enough, what is? What is your evidence to prove my list incorrect? BRING IT ON!
I live here. I see the buildings constantly under construction.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:36 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califoreigner View Post

I challenge ANYONE to name more than 75 high-rise buildings in all of New York City with 50+ storeys.

According to Emporis Buildings, there are currently 73 completed high-rise buildings (with 50 or more floors) within the city limits of New York City. http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/bu/s...t=9&ht=2&sro=1


If EMPORIS isn't good enough, what is? What is your evidence to prove my list incorrect? BRING IT ON!


I counted 76 (+-1) completed skyscrapers in NYC with 50 or more floors on SSP. I bet it will be over 100 by 2012.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:42 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLoydGeorge View Post
I live here. I see the buildings constantly under construction.
I trust that you keep track of construction activities in NYC. I am not challenging your perceptive abilities. I'm simply trying to get the facts straight on a matter that is statistically documented. Unless I’m mistaken, there are no secrets regarding the number of floors in currently-standing New York high-rises. This is public information that is recorded for very practical purposes.

Sometimes sensory perception is not the most reliable source for information on the world that surrounds us--and that's why I turn to the experts.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:44 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califoreigner View Post
I trust that you keep track of construction activities in NYC. I am not challenging your perceptive abilities. I'm simply trying to get the facts straight on a matter that is statistically documented. Unless I’m mistaken, there are no secrets regarding the number of floors in currently-standing New York high-rises. This is public information that is recorded for very practical purposes.

Sometimes sensory perception is not the most reliable source for information on the world that surrounds us--and that's why I turn to the experts.
Who knows? Maybe some of the countless buildings that I see under construction are 40 stories -- not 50. All I can say is that they are everywhere.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:51 AM   #135
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Now that I thought about it, I'm sure that we'll have over 100 buildings with 50 or more floors soon. Think about it: there has to be about 10/11 50+ story towers u/c and approved in DT. Bring Midtown and the other boroughs in and you have at least another 10. Add the mega projects (maybe you don't even have to), such as this one and Hudson Center, and bam, you have well over 100 towers with 50&+ floors!
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:53 AM   #136
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The following is from the 8-K report that Vornado filed with the US SEC:


UNITED STATES SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION

Washington, D.C. 20549

FORM 8-K

PURSUANT TO SECTION 13 OR 15(d) OF THE SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934

April 26, 2007

VORNADO REALTY TRUST

.....
Development/Redevelopment

Ground-up development, redevelopment and repositioning are essential and differentiating skills of our business. Our pipeline is huge and runs the gamut from the multi-billion dollar Penn Plaza district transformation (Farley/Moynihan Station/Madison Square Garden relocation/Penn Station/ Hotel Pennsylvania) to District of Columbia new-builds to the Bergen and Springfield mall mega fixer-uppers to dozens of other projects, see Appendix III for project-by-project detail.

Farley Update —We and our partner, the Related Companies, have been designated developer to convert the Farley Post Office Building, which occupies the super block between 31st and 33rd Streets from 8th to 9th Avenues, to the Moynihan Train Station. This project has been expanded to incorporate the adjacent super block to the east and will now involve relocating Madison Square Garden to the 9th Avenue side of Farley (to be developed and owned by MSG), permitting us to develop on the old Madison Square Garden site a great, soaring Penn Station, 5.5 million square feet of mixed-use new-builds, and incorporating our existing 1.5 million square foot Two Penn Plaza into a 7 million square foot complex. This long-term project has been publicly endorsed by City and State officials and is now in the approval process. The joint venture is working hard on documentation, design, budgets, etc. A giant step forward was taken on March 30, 2007 when New York’s Empire State Development Corporation completed the acquisition of the Farley building from the United States Postal Service. Vornado assets surround this project—One Penn Plaza, Two Penn Plaza, 11 Penn Plaza, Hotel Pennsylvania and various retail properties. As with all development projects, there may be significant scope changes and there can be no assurance that this project will commence, or if commenced, be completed on schedule or within budget.

We have gone back and forth regarding the organizational benefits of having a centralized development function or a decentralized one. It appears the latter has won out—Mitchell and Sandeep really do want to manage the approvals, design, budget and execution of the projects for which we hold them responsible. David is overseeing all New York development projects. Special thanks this year to Barry Langer and Sandy Reis.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 03:23 PM   #137
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I cant believe it! 136 posts and still no pics!!!!! (137 now!) Sooooo frustrating!
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Old June 20th, 2007, 05:01 PM   #138
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There probably won't be any either for a very long time. But, I'm hoping they prove me wrong.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 06:08 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudvayneimn View Post
There probably won't be any either for a very long time. But, I'm hoping they prove me wrong.
I'll bet we'll see renderings within a few months. Vornado plans to start construction in 2008.
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Old June 20th, 2007, 07:42 PM   #140
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Regaurdless of 50 + stories... there are more here than anywhere in this country.. even 40 stories, 30 stories is a dream for some places, for us, it's nothing. 78 buildings or 76 buildings over 50 stories... show me anywhere else in this country that match that.
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