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Old November 19th, 2014, 11:57 PM   #2121
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
To increase rail capacity on their side. Some treaties have been signed, but with no specific project in mind. At the moment, they are planning to increase loading gauge from the broder until some terminals and to build a new terminal in Milano Smistamento, partly with Swiss money.
Why not build a big terminal in Chiasso?
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Old November 20th, 2014, 12:45 AM   #2122
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Because roads in the area are already full of vehicles, the yard is already used to shunt trains, flat terrain in Ticino is very rare and the more freight travels by train, the better. However, a terminal in Chiasso was considered as an alternative if Italy did not improve its terminals (a thing which is being slowly done).

Today many trains coming from northern Europe transfer their goods in the area around Milan and Verona, from where goods continue by road until central Italy, so adapting railway lines and terminals south of Bologna would be wiser than continue to transfer goods in Milan or Verona.
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Old November 20th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #2123
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Today many trains coming from northern Europe transfer their goods in the area around Milan and Verona, from where goods continue by road until central Italy, so adapting railway lines and terminals south of Bologna would be wiser than continue to transfer goods in Milan or Verona.
Some € 4 billion extra were tackled on high speed lines to make them usable by freight trains in Italy... (higher axle load, enhanced safety features on tunnels), however it appears there is little appetite for using them for this purpose.
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Old November 20th, 2014, 09:27 AM   #2124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Some € 4 billion extra were tackled on high speed lines to make them usable by freight trains in Italy... (higher axle load, enhanced safety features on tunnels), however it appears there is little appetite for using them for this purpose.
A problem of price for paths may be ?

The first german high speed lines were made with freight transport in mind
too. How is it going there ?
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Old November 20th, 2014, 11:11 AM   #2125
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The TP Ferro-built high speed line between Perpignan and Figueres is also built with freight traffic in mind (to/from the port of Barcelona), and so is High Speed 1 (Channel Tunnel).
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Old November 20th, 2014, 11:44 AM   #2126
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The first german high speed lines were made with freight transport in mind
too. How is it going there ?
As far as I am aware some intermodal services do make use of the stretches of high-speed line in Germany that are cleared for cargo traffic.
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Old November 20th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #2127
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The high speed line Hannover-Würzburg is used by freight trains at night (I think from 10pm to 6am). During the day there is not enough space between the fast services.

Köln-Frankfurt HSL is not used by freight trains as it was designed to be only used by high speed trains.

Hannover-Berlin is used by some freight trains as well. For the other HSL in Germany I don't know, but I think most of them CAN be used by freight trains.
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Old November 20th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #2128
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Am I right to think only intermodals use the HS lines?
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Old November 20th, 2014, 06:00 PM   #2129
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Nope, AFAIK all kinds of freight trains run on the HSL. Maybe not the 6000 to ore train from Hamburg harbour to Beddingen (Salzgitter AG), but that's because there is no HSL on the way.
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Old November 21st, 2014, 05:35 PM   #2130
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That's true. In Germany all HSLs are designed for usage by both passenger and freight traffic with the exception of Frankfurt-Köln.

One of the main advantages of the Würzburg - Hannover line was and is that it greatly improved the connection of the industrial centres in the South to the German ports (mainly Hamburg). Keep in mind that it was planned and construction started in the days of old West Germany. The terrain in Central Germany is very hilly and there was no adequate direct line as that corridor was never a mayor railway connection before Germany was split into two countries.

Mannheim - Stuttgart is used by freight trains. It greatly improves the connection from the industrial heartland of Baden-Wurttemberg with the Rhine and Rotterdam. Keep in mind that the old lines run through the Black Forest mountains and teh narrow Neckar valley.

Nürnberg - Munich is not ready for freight trains already (in Germany, technical measurements have to be taken so that passenger trains travelling more than 250 kph don't meet freight trains in tunnels), but might be by 2017. Originally, up to 80 freight trains/day were planned. The same number applies for Nürnberg - Erfurt (- Leipzig) (currently u/c)

The Stuttgart - Ulm line (currently u/c) will be able to be used by light freight trains as well. Heavy trains will continue to use the conventional line (with additional locos needed on the steepest part around Geislingen where the line climbs the Alb mountains), but as that line is clogged by current traffic, freeing slots by moving trains to the new line is desperatly needed.

Frankfurt - Köln is too steep for freight trains (up to 4/1000 incline), but freight traffic benefits from more slots now available on the two Rhine valley railroads.
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 12:26 AM   #2131
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...505035&nseq=40
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Re 420 230 "LION" is pulling InterRegio 2272 from Locarno to Zürich over the Pianotondo viaduct in the Biaschina.
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 05:14 PM   #2132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Frankfurt - Köln is too steep for freight trains (up to 40/1000 incline), but freight traffic benefits from more slots now available on the two Rhine valley railroads.
FYP.
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 07:11 PM   #2133
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Quote:
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FYP.
Which was wrong 4/1000 is nothing for a railway line, the Frankfurt-Cologne line does indeed have 4%, or 40/1000 grades, more than the Alpine crossings of Arlberg, Semmering and Gotthard, for instance.
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Old November 22nd, 2014, 09:22 PM   #2134
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Which was wrong 4/1000 is nothing for a railway line, the Frankfurt-Cologne line does indeed have 4%, or 40/1000 grades, more than the Alpine crossings of Arlberg, Semmering and Gotthard, for instance.
I am sure it was a typo. Since the line is used for HS traffic only, it makes sense to built that way. Construction costs are much lower and trains like the ICE 3 can easily cope with such gradients.
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Old November 23rd, 2014, 11:54 AM   #2135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
I am sure it was a typo. Since the line is used for HS traffic only, it makes sense to built that way. Construction costs are much lower and trains like the ICE 3 can easily cope with such gradients.
Sorry, forgot you're not a mod . I thought you changed the 40/1000 from the post above yours to 4/1000, i.e., you decreased the gradient by a factor of 10. Now I understood that you fixed the post in the quote-box .
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Old November 24th, 2014, 01:39 AM   #2136
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...505095&nseq=36
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RegioExpress 3807 with doubledeck trainset RABe 511 017 from Wil (SG) to Chur near Räfis, with Kreuzberge and Stauberngrat in the background.
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Old November 24th, 2014, 10:56 AM   #2137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
Nürnberg - Munich is not ready for freight trains already (in Germany, technical measurements have to be taken so that passenger trains travelling more than 250 kph don't meet freight trains in tunnels), but might be by 2017. Originally, up to 80 freight trains/day were planned. The same number applies for Nürnberg - Erfurt (- Leipzig) (currently u/c)
The Tunnelbegegnungsverbot (sometimes, German is awesome, I don't know how to put it in English, but it means that freights trains don't meet high speed trains in tunnels) makes it almost impossible to run freight trains during the day on the Erfurt-Nürnberg HSL. On the Leipzig-Erfurt section it might be possible, because the tunnels were built with two separate tubes.

We'll see whether in real operation freight trains will run during the day at all. Does anybody know (for sure) on which HSL in Germany freight trains run during the day?
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Old November 24th, 2014, 01:43 PM   #2138
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Pretty sure about Würzburg - Hannover.
However, the majority of freight traffic runs overnight anyway, on both conventional and HSL lines.
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Old November 24th, 2014, 04:47 PM   #2139
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The Tunnelbegegnungsverbot

Is this the sequel to the The Babadook?
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Old November 24th, 2014, 05:57 PM   #2140
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The Tunnelbegegnungsverbot (sometimes, German is awesome)
As a German, that really made me laugh.
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