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Old April 29th, 2011, 05:54 PM   #221
steple
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May 13th, 2010:

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Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Not in the traditional way the current tilting trains work.

These trains will only have a 1° tilt in comparison to the 8° of normal tilting trains. And it does that with new innovative bogies that allow the train to tilt without having to have an active space consuming tilting system in the train body above the bogies. You might think that 1° tilt is not that much but it results in a 8,5% time reduction on the Bern Lausanne route compared to a conventional train. A tilting train can make a 13% time reduction, but without the 60% higher passenger capacity of the new double stock trains.

Other features of the bogies are that the axles turn inside the bogies to adapt the radius of the curves on the line. Reducing energy use, noise polution & maintenance costs.

As for international use of these trains, only Germany and Austria are in the picture but I believe only as an option to make that possible in a later stage.
In Swiss-German: http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?i...1-d4d09c25a9a3
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Old April 30th, 2011, 12:33 AM   #222
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The Swiss are going cheap, trading another 4,5% in travel time for the sake of avoiding buying more rail cars
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Old April 30th, 2011, 12:41 AM   #223
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Feel free to start planning how to put them here
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Old April 30th, 2011, 12:43 AM   #224
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New Geneve-Bern-Zürich high-speed line.
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Old April 30th, 2011, 12:45 AM   #225
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Are you paying for it?
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Old April 30th, 2011, 12:48 AM   #226
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Are you paying for it?
The question is: if you have a line so heavily used that you can't adopt state-of-the-art trains because you need to settle with double-deckers, you are past big time the point in which you should have expanded the line.

What is next? Extra rail cars that do no have access to platforms so you walk two cars in front to exit the train?
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Old April 30th, 2011, 12:50 AM   #227
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Would you accept a 30% increase on fuel taxes and 2% increase of the VAT to finance all new lines needed?
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Old April 30th, 2011, 12:59 AM   #228
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No, but I'd accept a hefty price increase on train tickets.
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Old April 30th, 2011, 01:04 AM   #229
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Basic prices are already very high. The price of very few discount cards might be increased, but on the other side increasing too much train tickets may induce to a loss of passengers to private cars.

In any case the money needed for new railways would be billions, so tickets could not recover their cost in an acceptable time.
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Old April 30th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #230
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No, but I'd accept a hefty price increase on train tickets.
But you never use the trains. I'm pretty sure the people actually using them will take the 8,5% time reduction over the 13% time reduction if the latter means a hefty ticket price increase....
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Old April 30th, 2011, 07:16 PM   #231
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A new hybrid EuroCity-InterRegio will start running mid June: http://tinyurl.com/6ewgw24
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Old May 2nd, 2011, 03:33 PM   #232
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Quote:
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The question is: if you have a line so heavily used that you can't adopt state-of-the-art trains because you need to settle with double-deckers, you are past big time the point in which you should have expanded the line.
What's wrong with double deckers. What's not "state of the art" about them? Anyway, the line between Bern and Lausanne is not at all near capacity at the moment. They could easily (as is done on the Gotthard for example) run the busier trains double.
However, there is reason why they don't do that. And I would expect you to understand that reason. The reason is simple: SBB wants to make money. In order to make money you have to earn more than you spend. In order to get there you need to be efficient. Running one big double decker train (the plan is for trainsets of 400m length) is a much more efficient use of your personnel and your physical plant than running several conventional trains one after the other.

Quote:
What is next? Extra rail cars that do no have access to platforms so you walk two cars in front to exit the train?
400m double deck trains (which is what they are planning) already means a significant increase in capacity. The next step is to run those trains four times per hour, in stead of just two tines. But in order to do that they will first need to do some changes in the approaches to Bern Hbf. From next year on however an extra regional train is added to the route, and I asume that the IR will then have less stops.
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Old May 2nd, 2011, 03:36 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Basic prices are already very high. The price of very few discount cards might be increased, but on the other side increasing too much train tickets may induce to a loss of passengers to private cars.
Personally I think that the price of for example the "Generalabonnement" could be increased quite a bit. It's used intensively by people commuting from Bern to Zürich (as I can see every morning) and the price is lower that you'd spend on fuel alone if you commuted Bern to Zürich by car everyday... So an increase in price would not lead to a big loss of customers there.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 09:50 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The question is: if you have a line so heavily used that you can't adopt state-of-the-art trains because you need to settle with double-deckers, you are past big time the point in which you should have expanded the line.
Double deckers are state-of-the-art. Countries that are still running single deckers always appear to be a little backward to me.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 04:42 PM   #235
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Suburbanist would be happy:

Quote:
Les CFF augmentent leurs prix, les jeunes trinquent (Le Matin)

Les prix de la plupart des abonnements et des billets des CFF augmenteront le 11 décembre. La Voie 7, victime de son succès auprès des jeunes, coûtera 30% plus cher.

La hausse des prix dans les transports en commun est désormais officielle. La plupart des abonnements généraux des CFF coûteront 2% à 4% de plus le 11 décembre prochain. Au niveau des billets, la deuxième classe reste épargnée alors qu’en première classe, il faudra débourser 3% de plus.

(...)

Le prix de la plupart des abonnements généraux va augmenter. La hausse est plus marquée pour la première classe, avec en moyenne 4,3% de plus. En deuxième classe, le surcoût atteint 1,7% en moyenne.

(...)

La Voie 7: 30 % plus cher

De même, la Voie 7 est victime de son succès, d’où une hausse massive de 30%. L’abonnement qui permet aux moins de 26 ans de voyager entre 19 heures et 5 heures passera ainsi de 99 à 129 francs.

(...)

Deuxième classe et demi-tarif épargnés

L’abonnement demi-tarif ne sera pas augmenté. En ce qui concerne les billets classiques, la deuxième classe reste épargnée.

Pour la première classe en revanche, il faudra débourser en moyenne 3% de plus. Les CFF soulignent que les voyageurs de première classe profitent d’un confort et de prestations supplémentaires, qui ont un coût.

(...)

Les hausses de tarif sont la condition pour que le réseau de transports publics en Suisse conserve la même qualité à l’avenir malgré une augmentation massive du nombre d’usagers, martèlent les CFF et l’UTP. Les CFF soulignent ainsi qu’ils remplaceront 90’000 places assises et en créeront 110’000 nouvelles d’ici à 2030, alors qu’ils disposent à l’heure actuelle de 290’000 places.

(...)

15 à 20 % plus cher sur 10 ans

La hausse du prix des transports pour les usagers fait les gros titres depuis le début de l’année. La conseillère fédérale Doris Leuthard a notamment annoncé en janvier des mesures pour assurer le financement des infrastructures du rail et de la route.

En mars, le directeur de l’Office fédéral des transports Peter Flüglistaler a évoqué une hausse du prix des billets de train de 15 à 20% sur dix ans.
Starting from the 11th of december, ticket prices will be increased. Only the demi-tarif (halbtax) and normal single second-class tickets will be saved from these increases of 4.3% for 1st class and 1.7% for 2nd class on average, well above the general inflation rate.

Specially bad is the increase of 30% of the Voie 7 (Gleis 7) subscription, as only under 25 years old users are allowed to use it, so it will affect students and other low-income users.

The increase of tariffs is supposed to be made under the condition that quality remains the same even if the number of users will continue to increase very fast in the future.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 08:26 PM   #236
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Double deckers are state-of-the-art. Countries that are still running single deckers always appear to be a little backward to me.
If so, Italy and Spain must be among the most backward countries in terms of rail transport. As that article states, using double deckers means there is less space for tilting mechanisms up to the usual 8-11 degrees. Double deckers also have a problem with luggage space and accommodation of handicapped passengers.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 10:52 PM   #237
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All recent new double deck trains, in Switzerland but not only, are either low floor or accesible by wheelchair by law.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 12:03 AM   #238
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All recent new double deck trains, in Switzerland but not only, are either low floor or accesible by wheelchair by law.
I know they are accessible, but on a single-floor train, a wheelchair passenger can move freely throughout the train on the single corridor, whereas in a double decker usually just one of the floors, and sometimes just part of the lower floor, is wheelchair accessible.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 07:58 AM   #239
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I don't know what kind of train you have ever been on. But most single deck trains, especially Intercity trains don't have the space for wheelchairs to move freely throughout the train. Or they have to be put on the balcony or they get a place at the beginning of the compartment where some extra space is created.

The double deck trains are even better for wheelchairs since they have low floor access and wide outer doors. Tilting trains are generally the worst when it comes to wheelchair accessibility, because everything is a bit more cramped. This also goes for luggage space, tilting trains and double deck trains are very comparable on this matter.

And why is it even important that wheelchairs should be able to move freely throughout a train? If they get a good place and accessible toilet it's already enough. Giving them more room to move would just mean less seats, making a train less economical and also less comfortable for the majority of travelers.
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Old May 4th, 2011, 08:25 AM   #240
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Quote:
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If so, Italy and Spain must be among the most backward countries in terms of rail transport.
My experiences in Italy are bad. Trains are late, trains are run down, windows are scratched. Stations are dirty. Ticket machines don't run. ect. ect.

Quote:
As that article states, using double deckers means there is less space for tilting mechanisms up to the usual 8-11 degrees. Double deckers also have a problem with luggage space and accommodation of handicapped passengers.
Tilting trains have not been very successful, the ICN is one of the most unpopular train, so is the Cisalpino also known as Schissalpino (Shitalpino). Your argument with handicapped people is wrong. The IC2000 can handle handicapped passengers very well on the lower deck, while the ICN and the CIS cand handle handicapped passengers well.
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