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Old May 11th, 2016, 09:45 PM   #2401
suasion
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Quote:
After all, Switzerland is in just as active an orogenic zone as e.g. Nepal.
No the Alps are no longer an active orogeny.
Earthquake proofing would of course be nice but IMO is a waste of resources, Swiss rail users are more at risk from other things such as landslides, drivererror, levelcrossings etc.
and as for the Appalachins, without ever having studied them I would say you are confusing topography with structural geology. Surface features we see are shaped by erosional processes, which may or may not be influenced by whatever is outcropping. Your valley was formed by fluvial and glacial processes, maybe the petrology exerted some control on the routing maybe it was existing topology. But what ever the reason we should be thankful for valleys, otherwise building railways would have been far more difficult
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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:22 AM   #2402
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I have no more info, except what I remember having read. The maximum grade on the DML is 4% on the ramp from the underground platforms in HB towards the surface (because of constraints given by other structures). This should have not be a big problems with modern EMUs. However, delivery of the Bombardier Twindexx double deck IC EMUs planned to be used on the DML is late, so on trains using the DML the existing double deck IC hauled coaches must be used (the "IC 2000"). As these coaches are heavy, longer trains now need two Re 460 (one at each end), while before the opening of the DML they just needed one. However, shorter double deck InterCitys do not need a second loco.

Usually most frequented IC trains are composed by two parts: the basic configuration of Re 460+coaches+driving trailer, and a group of 3 or 4 coaches (sometimes nicknamed "päckli"). These two groups of coaches are usually not divided, they are managed as fixed compositions. So with the opening of the DML the extra group of coaches also includes a Re 460, and these are attached to the train together on peak hours (before the coaches were added by a shunting engine).

The extra Re 460 have been taken from other services, which in turn received older locos.

To see one of these composition go to http://www.reisezuege.ch/reisezuege/index.php ==> Zugnummer suchen ==> insert train number 827. This is the Brig 15:49 - Romanshorn 19:18. Its composition is a Re 460, four single deck coaches, nine double deck coaches and another Re 460. On Saturdays, the päckli is removed, including the second loco.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:56 AM   #2403
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Pretty detailed, thank you.

Just to make it clear: to move a set of IC2000s out of the DML, without the päckli, a single Re 460 is enough?

I retrieved a weight of 9 x 47 t = 423 t for the IC2000 set, + 84 t of the loco = 507 t.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 01:31 AM   #2404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Pretty detailed, thank you.

Just to make it clear: to move a set of IC2000s out of the DML, without the päckli, a single Re 460 is enough?

I retrieved a weight of 9 x 47 t = 423 t for the IC2000 set, + 84 t of the loco = 507 t.
Yes, even 10-car IC2000 trains are hauled by a single Re 460, on the IC St. Gallen - Geneva to be precise.

I think I showed a similar picture of the Letzigraben bridge before. This train obviously travelled over the 4.0% ramp as well:



http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...558176&nseq=44
Georg Trüb, December 13, 2015, Zürich
With the change of timetable on December 13th, the new bridges of the Durchmesserlinie (DML) came in service. Re 460 # 046 is pushing her 9 car IC 2000 double deck train up the 2.7 % grade of the Letzigraben bridge, with 1156 meter the longest railway bridge in Switzerland, bringing the trains on the other side of the large track field between Zürich main station and Zürich Altstetten. The train is on the way from Romanshorn to Brig and made no change of direction in Zürich HB, which is no longer a terminus station for long distance trains, but a "going through station" with the new underground tracks 31-34.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 02:00 AM   #2405
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Right, I remember that nice pic. I didn't connect it with the DML

I also read that those two bridges are designed with different grades for uphill and downhill ramps (if I understood "Steigung" and "Gefälle" correctly).
Letzigraben +2,7% and -4,0%, Kohlendreieck +2,6% and -3,0%.

Is the performance of these trains severely affected, considering they have to deal with the ramps after a full stop?
Or maybe there is a flat underground stretch between the platforms and the ramp, to gain some momentum?


EDIT: No, I think I found the answer...

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Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Last edited by Wilhem275; May 12th, 2016 at 02:55 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 12:49 AM   #2406
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...=559898&nseq=1
Georg Trüb, December 22, 2015, Zürich
A lot to see in this view from the 126 meter high "Prime Tower" (Zürich's highest building), with the Letzigrund stadium (Soccer and track and field) on the left and Altstetten on the right. In the middle Switzerland's longest railway viaduct, the new 1156 meter long single track Letzigraben bridge, which lifts the express trains leaving Zürich towards the west up to 16 meter high over the track field to Zürich Altstetten. The allowed maximum speed over this bridge is 120 km/h, the maximum down grade towards Altstetten 4.0 %! In the foreground, a highspeed tilting train ETR 610 of Trenitalia is on the bridge from the Herdern holding sidings to the main station, for a run to Milano. A commuter double deck train DPZ with locomotive Re 450 is running from Hardbrücke towards Oerlikon via the Käferberg line. Behind the Letzigraben bridge are the buildings of the SBB Reparaturcenter Altstetten (repair center), the former industrial works or "Hauptwerkstatt".
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Old May 15th, 2016, 01:18 AM   #2407
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...575112&nseq=74
Georg Trüb, May 02, 2016, Luzern
Diesel locmotive Am 843 # 073 of SBB Cargo is shoving the Re 460 # 079 with publicity paint scheme (adhesives) for the "Crédit Suisse" and Gottardo 2016 through the park near the Swiss Museum of Transport in Lucerne. The CS bank is one of the main sponsors of the opening ceremonies for the Gotthard Base Tunnel (GBT) in June 2016.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 02:39 AM   #2408
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The Verkehrshaus has a track connection with the rail network. However, not all tracks inside the museum are linked with the outside (but these are occupied by vehicles damaged or never maintained, and so unable to move on the mainline anyway). If a vehicle on an isolated track needs to be displaced, which does not happen often, they build a temporary track directly on the floor. Vehicles displayed on tracks connected to the mainline are more frequently moved, and sometimes also used on the rail network.

Other museums have a track link, like the one in Madrid or the new one in Bruxelles

Some others have lost since years their track link, but still have functioning trains inside, like in Gijón, where some locomotives are actually moved from time to time, even if they are buried in their prison!
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Old May 15th, 2016, 05:17 PM   #2409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Other museums have a track link, like the one in Madrid or the new one in Bruxelles
DB has a bizzarre one
https://www.google.ch/maps/@49.44542...7i13312!8i6656
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.

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Old May 17th, 2016, 12:56 AM   #2410
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...573553&nseq=26
Georg Trüb, April 18, 2016, Zürich HB
A very seldom view, the large hall of Zürich main station empty, but this is monday morning at 05.49 AM. About 430 000 people are using Switzerlands most frequented station, with nearly 3000 trains a day. This large hall was built in 1871 and had 6 tracks till the position of the photographer. The red spiral is an artwork "The Philosopher's Egg" by Mario Merz. On the right, seen from the back, "L'ange protecteur" (guardian angel) by Nikki de Saint Phalle.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 01:17 AM   #2411
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This roof looks shabby and in need of replacement.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:10 PM   #2412
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...531291&nseq=19
Georg Trüb, May 18, 2015, between Walenstadt and Unterterzen
Prototype Re 6/6 # 11601 "Wolhusen" from 1972 is pulling freight train 63368 from Domat-Ems to Limmattal shunting yard along the Walensee near Mols, with Sichelchamm mountain in the background. Only # 11601 and 11602 have a divided locomotive body, intended for a better distribution of the axle load. # 11601 was built by SLM and BBC and delivered on 27th October 1972, # 11602 "Morges" was delivered on 19th September 1972.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:40 PM   #2413
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Note that 11601 and 11602 can "bend" only vertically (on an horizontal axis), and not horizontally ("left-right", on a vertical axis).

Other contemporary BBB locomotives also bend horizontally to ease curves, like the Italian E.656: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS_Class_E.656

Note also that Domat/Ems is on the RhB double gauge section.

The Re 6/6 of the production series have a rigid frame.
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Old May 19th, 2016, 12:30 AM   #2414
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http://www.railpictures.net/viewphot...540254&nseq=57
Georg Trüb, July 28, 2015, Wassen
Re 4/4 II # 11191 with Interregio 2316 from Chiasso to Basel on the middle Meienreuss bridge. About one minute earlier the train was on the upper Meienreuss bridge (background) in the opposite direction.
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 09:37 PM   #2415
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Questions:

1) Is the proposed Grimsel Pass line going to be strictly a base tunnel, or will it run outdoors for any significant distance? Also, is there any word on progress there?

2) What route will the meter-gauge connection on the Golden Pass route take, and how far along are those plans?

3) Are there any plans to connect the meter gauge line from Montreux to the MOB?

4) Are there any plans to re-gauge the lines leading up towards the Jungfrau so as to make a continuous meter-gauge route? What about re-wiring the Gornergratbahn to allow through operation?

5) Are there any thoughts about extending past Scuol-Tarasp down the Engadine to Landeck as was originally planned? There probably isn't anything planned up over Maloja Pass to Chiavenna, but it would certainly be nice.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 12:08 AM   #2416
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1) It would be only a tunnel, clmbing from ~640 m to ~1400 m, with no significant section above ground, except for short connections to existing lines and two middle stations inside the tunnel, which would be built above ground and likely have an open wall on one side. Basically there would be three independent tunnels linked by heavy snow shelters, not a ssingle bored tunnel.

2) The so-called Golden Pass route is a group of three independent sections with a common brand.
Montreux-Zweisimmen, 1000 mm, MOB
Zweisimmen-Interlaken, 1435 mm, BLS
Interlaken-Lucerne, 1000 mm, ZB
There is a plan to run direct trains between Montreux and Interlaken using variable gauge coaches (only towed stock, no motor vehicles). The third section would not see them as building vehicles with variable gauge bogies and cog wheels would be very difficult, and as most tourist would alight in Inerlaken anyway (towed stock on rack railways must have a cog wheel to brake, although those without can sometimes be allowed on rack sections if most of other vehicles in the train have cog wheels).
There was once a plan to regauge or double gauge the middle section on the BLS, but this was abandoned in favour of the variable gauge trains.

3) What do you mean? The MOB line ends in Montreux already. Maybe you are thinking about the Vevey-Blonay-Les Pléiades line, which is linked to the MOB by a line that only has tourist trains?

4) No, the company likely wants to have tourist wandering around and maybe spenfing money (at least in Kleine Scheidegg), and also remember that climbing 3 km too quickly might not be healthy for some (although there is the so-called V-Bahn project which would complete the slower WAB railway with a faster ropeway (the WAB line would remain, the ropeway would be in addition)).
No, firstly for the same reasons above (too quick altitude change, tourists wandering around Zermatt), secondly on the GGB traffic is more variable, thirdly today the GGB allow a 24 minute headway on the lower part and 12' on the upper part, to be compatible with the MGB new double track sections or crossing loops would have to be built. And many people going on the Gornergrat have an hotel in Zermatt so they don't have to change train (on the same trip).

5) Thoughts yes, serious plans no. That would be expensive, but for low traffic. Remember that when these lines were built the only alternatives were horses for rich people, and walking for the rest, so railways didn't have competition. Now it's different. A more realistic project is the short extension from St Moritz station to a new station near the Signal ropeway, to bring skiers directly to the slopes. And maybe another section beyond to the Corvatch ropeway. These would be the first stages of an unlikely Maloja railway.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 12:24 AM   #2417
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Anyone knows approximately how many disused railways stations there are in Switzerland (on still operating lines)? I've noticed four on Basel-Zurich via Brugg line and few on Basel-Delemont line as well, but there probably are dozens elsewhere.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 12:27 AM   #2418
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Reading a bit more about that and it looks like lots of train services were discontinued in 93/94.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 01:04 AM   #2419
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I have no idea.

There are some which have very few trains and only on peak hours: like north of Yverdon, between Romont and Palézieux, on the Lötschberg, on the Gotthard.

Usually they are closed (or are used on peak hours only) to free capacity for other trains. All serve (or served) small villages with low traffic, and are repalced by buses (I suppose none was closed whitout alternative).

There is a book which describes them all, "Le paradis perdu" (or something similar), in French.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 01:07 AM   #2420
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Thank you very much!! I just have a few questions/clarifications:

1) Would you happen to know of a map of this, and where the stations would be?

2) Is the BLS double-gauging/re-gauging idea permanently buried? Or might it be resurrected if the variable-gauge system has difficulties or traffic demands it?

3) That was a complete fudge-up on my part-I meant to ask if there are plans to connect the St. Gervais-Vallorcine line from Martigny to the MGB at Visp.

4) I can't find anything on the V-Bahn, but I did see that the Jungfrau railway is considering a high-speed "Tunnel Lift" up the mountain. Wouldn't that negate the whole idea of worrying about fast altitude changes?

5) I see. But is a Maloja Pass line technically feasible? And which extension (aside from the ones within St. Moritz) is more likely?
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