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Old May 6th, 2011, 01:03 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The technologically most advanced trains, however, are entirely single-deckers. Alstoms AGV, the Velaro of Siemens as well as the latest Shinkansen trainsets.
Bi Level Shinkansen sets do exist however. And SNCF is at the moment only buying Bi Level TGV sets...

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No, this possibility is pretty real. Properly designed rail systems are entirely accessible. It is just the short-sightedness of the SBB strategy to stick to low level platform that preserve physical obstacles.
In engineering everything is a compromise. Sure, having high level platforms with a train floor height that exactly match it has numerous advantages. The Münich S-Bahn is a very well designed system that does just that. The Berlin S-Bahn is also a good example.

However, in the case of the Zürich S-Bahn SBB had to work within several constraints, some of them to do with geography, others with politics.

The Berlin S-Bahn is more like a Mass Transit system. Most lines are double track, and segregated from the long distance network. In such an environment running it as a rapid transit system makes sense, and this is exactly what is done.
In Zürich the situation is different. There are several constraints within which SBB has to work.
- Many lines are single track. That means that one has to adhere to a strict interval schedule and adding relief trains is basically impossible. S-Bahn lines run at 30 minute intervals (with overlapping lines this means 15 minutes in many cases) throughout the day, with hardly any extra trains during rush hour.
- Zürich HBf is extremely congested. In trains per day this is the busiest station in Europe.

Double deck trains make a lot of sense here. And the new double deck trains are fully accesible.

There are also political issues. Every large project needs voter approval.

The Zürich S-Bahn is not Urban Rapid Transit like the Munich or Berlin S-Bahn are. It is used as such between Stettbach and Hardbrücke, but the solution to the problems that causes don't lie (in my opinion) in solutions that reduce the attractiveness of the S-Bahn to out of city commuters. The solution is to offer alternatives for inner city movements. Putting a Metro for Zürich back on the agenda is probably a better solution than switching back to single deck trains for the suburban services.
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Old May 6th, 2011, 01:28 PM   #282
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Some statistics from different sources.

Passenger traffic

Road traffic (in number of passengers) after the road boom in the 1950s is growing slower since the 1990s.



This graphic showing passengers*km is similar, the road boom then a slower growth.



Walking was estimated at 7.8 billions pkm in 1950 and 5.4 in 2008, while bicycles accounted for 1.5 and 2.0 pkm respectively. The number of bicycles has grown from 1.8 to 4.2 millions. Traffic on all means of transport grew from 15 billions pkm in 1950 to 29 in 1960, 98 in 1990 and 117 in 2008 and is still growing. Predictions are for a faster growth in percentage on public than on private transport.

Between 2000 and 2008, rail passenger traffic grew from 12.6 to 18.6 billions pkm (+47%), road public transport from 4.6 to 5.4 (+17%), non motorized traffic from 6.5 to 7.5 (+15%), and road traffic from 83.2 to 90.0 (+8%). The rail growth is due to the Rail 2000 project which focused on upgrading existing infrastructure rather than building new railways (new built lines in these 8 years don't exceed 100 km, spread over the whole nation, the longest new single line being only 45 km long, the Lötschberg base tunnel is not counted in these 100 km).

Freight traffic

Freight traffic in tonnes shows a strange peak for road in 1990, beside that the number of tonnes did not grew between 1980 and 2004.



This graphic (tonnes*km) shows a general growth and a higher proportion for railways than the preceding graphic, meaning that the distance goods travelled is increasing unlike their weight (an increase in volume rather than in weight is also likely). Rail traffic in 2008 accounted for 27% of non transit traffic (internal, import, export) or 44% of all traffic.



Transalpine freight traffic

Railway in 2008 carried 64% of all transalpine goods or 73% of north-south transit. 75% of transalpine freight in Switzerland was in transit. In millions of tonnes, traffic on the four main passes in 2008 was:
Great St Bernard: 0.7 on road (57.000 trucks)
Simplon: 0.9 on road, 10 on rail (82.000 trucks)
Gotthard: 11 on road, 15.5 on rail (973.000 trucks)
San Bernardino: 1.8 on road (163.000 trucks)
After the introduction of the road tax (LSVA/RPLP/TTPCP) and the weight limit increase from 28 to 40 tonnes the number of trucks fell from 1.404.000 in 2000 to 1.275.000 in 2008, while the number of tonnes transported increased from 8.9 to 14.4 millions. This was possible partly because of the higher load per truck and partly because empty trucks pay the same as loaded vehicles. Transporters are thus encouraged to avoid as much as possible empty truck trips.
Freight traffic on other passes crossing the main watershed is negligible even if it does exist (Maloja, Lucomagno, and even on the Bernina railway).

Millions of tonnes, orange = rail, blue = road.

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Old May 7th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Some statistics from different sources.
Thank you! Could you please provide me the source of the first (Frenc language) charts?
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Old May 7th, 2011, 08:02 PM   #284
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It's the LITRA website: http://www.litra.ch/_Les_transports_...fres_2010.html (something semi-official I think, the original statistics are from the government)
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Old May 7th, 2011, 11:27 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
It's the LITRA website: http://www.litra.ch/_Les_transports_...fres_2010.html (something semi-official I think, the original statistics are from the government)
Thank you!
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Old May 8th, 2011, 11:29 AM   #286
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Some other statistics, from http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/f...icationID=3550

Firstly, the main flows of traffic of private cars in 2007 (übrige Relationen = other traffics).



Average daily traffic on railways.



Variation of rail passengers by day (workday, saturday, sunday, sat and sun, average of all days).



Type of flows for railways.



Comparison of types of traffic and reasons for travelling.

Strasse = road, Schiene = rail

Verkehrsart = type of traffic
Ziel-/Quellverkehr = traffic from/to switzerland, mainly from/to Italy (I'm not sure which German term refers to traffic exiting Switzerland and which to traffic entering)
Transitverkehr = transit traffic
Binnenverkehr = internal traffic

Fahrtzweck = reasons (commuters, business, shopping and leisure)

Only private cars and long distance trains of the four main passes are considered, no buses and transalpine regional trains.

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Old May 8th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #287
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Those tables, alone, should prompt the Swiss to build a 2nd Gotthard road tunnel.
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Old May 8th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #288
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No, thank you, until what has been decided 20 years ago will be done (the 50% trucks reduction).
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Old May 8th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #289
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The best vehicle a road can have (Chur, GR):







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Old May 10th, 2011, 06:00 PM   #290
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The new train for the Simplon shuttle is being tested with military trucks: http://www.seegerweb.ch/index.php?op...id=26#category
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Old May 15th, 2011, 03:08 AM   #291
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I've uploaded some videos of the rush hour in my hometown Winterthur. No cuts!
Winterthur has about 100'000 inhabitants, but according to Wipkipedia up to 122'000 passengers per day at the main station!

part 1:

part 2:

Last edited by steple; May 29th, 2011 at 06:05 PM.
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Old May 16th, 2011, 06:40 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steple View Post
I've uploaded some videos of the rush hour in my hometown Winterthur. No cuts!
Winterthur has about 100'000 inhabitants, but according to Wipkipedia up to 122'000 passengers per day at the main station!

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCuOB8z25_w

part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zd-AWwTG-A
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Old May 17th, 2011, 03:32 AM   #293
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And is there any logical explanation for that?
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Old May 17th, 2011, 07:47 AM   #294
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And is there any logical explanation for that?
People taking multiple trips a day. Someone living in Winterthur, commuting to Zürich will be counted as a passenger at the station twice. Also someone commuting to Winterthur gets counted as two passengers. The Winterthur - Zürich route alone is good for about 100000 passengers.

In the Canton of Zürich the public transport system is fully integrated in a tariff union called ZVV. This covers something like 51 public transport companies (of which 6 railways), and serves a population of 1.3 million. Modal share of public transport is 36% (car is 39%). In the city of Zürich itself public transport moves about twice the number of people as private transport does.
Zürich is one of the wealthiest areas in the world, which shows that a high standard of living is not incompatible with high transit usage...
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Old May 17th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #295
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It does help that the rail network is very dense, looking at Zürich you will see that almost the whole city is located within a 2 km from railway stations.

Comparable cities like the bigger cities in the Netherlands simply a bigger radius with every station. Plus there's no integrated tariff system between the different public transport systems. Therefor you see a much bigger share of private transport, with all the congestion problems that also have a negative effect on the local public transport systems that feed the railways.

A dense system that is used smartly results in a good result, and that's the case in Zürich
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Old May 17th, 2011, 02:30 PM   #296
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The ETR 470.007 took fire this morning (around 9:00), the Gotthard railway has been closed and may be reopened within one hour (around 14.00). Around 4 ETR out of 9 are out of service for different reasons (one because it's under heavy maintenance, one has been damaged in a derailment last week, another one is out of service since last December since SBB doesn't know or want to repair it).

http://www.tio.ch/aa_pagine_comuni/a...open=1&idimg=2

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Old May 17th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #297
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Worst trains ever
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Old May 17th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #298
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Well, their problems are also due to too tight schedules and "sabotages" (when an ETR is preceeded by an ICN a few minutes before, the ICN get priority while the ETR is sometimes delayed). But we cannot neither say that the ETR 470 are the best trains ever.
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Old May 17th, 2011, 04:24 PM   #299
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Well, their problems are also due to too tight schedules and "sabotages" (when an ETR is preceeded by an ICN a few minutes before, the ICN get priority while the ETR is sometimes delayed). But we cannot neither say that the ETR 470 are the best trains ever.
What do schedules have to do with a train setting on fire or having always a high proportion of trains (around 40%) unusable for different technical reasons?
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Old May 17th, 2011, 05:09 PM   #300
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I'm saying that if the ETR 470 are often late in Zürich is not their fault but because the timetable is badly planend. If the ICN could travel in Italy they would probably run late, viceversa if an ETR ran on Basel-Chiasso services, which don't run in Italy, it would run on time. In other words the 470 are extremely unreliable, but the delays are in my opinion due mainly to the timetable or problems on the railway, not due to the ETR themselves.
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